Am I in the wrong here?

[Kirkyface]

Hi,
Thanks for reading.
I live in an end terrace of four houses. The only downpipe for the whole terrace is down the front of our house, and it discharges into the street just in front of our house. It was built in 1870ish.

we had our knackered guttering replaced about a year ago. Next door’s is in a similarly sorry state but they are adamant it is fine. We have seen no problems until recently, when penetrating damp began appearing in our house and next door.

the neighbour has investigated and it turns out that the joint between our guttering and next doors os slightly humped and so water is not making its way from their roof, across the join and to the outlet. Instead it is overflowing the back of the gutter and leaking between the brick courses.

The leak is technically caused by their gutter- it doesn’t even reach ours- but that the join being a slight hump is the reason.

The reason there is a hump is because there is a brick ridge just below the gutters that makes it impossible to lower them enough on that side to meet the building regs requirements for incline and flow rate.

We have suggested the answer is to add another downpipe a bit the neighbour is having none of it.

A complicating factor is that the damp has come on suddenly, but not for nearly a year after we had the gutters replaced. The damp coincided with two things: storm Eunice, and the neighbour removing concrete render from the front of his house. My gut feeling is that this has something to do with it too, but he is absolutely having none of it.

I don’t know where we stand: it is probable our contractor has caused a problem, but to solve it would contravene building regs. It is also possible the render removal is the problem.

I am not looking to dig our heels in and I want the problem solved, especially if it’s our fault. But I don’t see how we are able to because there simply isn’t the physical space to lower the gutter.

where do we stand?

 

[Mr diy a lot.]

Forget trying to apply modern building regs about gutter angles and flow rates to a row of 150 year old terraces. It would appear the gutter angle has been successfully helping water flow off the roof for 150 years. And now you have a hump created by your contractor which is now causing the problem. The contractor needed to install the new guttering in the exact same position as the old stuff.

In this case building regs are irrelevant- the current arrangements are now damaging both your properties which trumps any arbitrary reg so borrow and big ladder, find a mate, and get up there and get it repositioned. You don’t need to be paying big bucks to tradesmen to fix a gutter - they are not complicated!

 

[Coopa]

Hi I would call your workman back to re run the gutters to same position as said before . May I ask if it’s cast iron on your neighbours side and also did you replace yours in cast iron or change to upvc? I only ask because of the different profiles of the gutter brackets would hamper the installer on getting the flow

 

[Notch7]

The leak is technically caused by their gutter- it doesn’t even reach ours- but that the join being a slight hump is the reason

It must be a huge “slight hump” to cause the gutter to overflow.

A a few pics would help - from a distance showing both houses would be helpful.

and if you could say what gutter you had installed and what it replaced, would be helpful.

 

[Kirkyface]

Thanks to all who have replied; this is very helpful.

Attached are some photos; our house is on the left.

I think there is a combination of problems, or which the hump is just one, but I would be interested to see what you think after looking at the photos. My personal feeling is that the gutters have been leaking for some time, but not noticeably, since the jutting brick ledge just below is causing it to disperse elsewhere.

the gutter on our side is upvc. The gutter we replaced was plastic too in places, but some cast iron- it has been repaired in the past by the looks of it. The neighbour’s gutter is all cast iron except for a foot or so of plastic, just across the boundary- the join between our houses is therefore plastic.

I’ve also uploaded a photo of the original guttering and roof before we replaced them. Sorry the quality is crap- it’s a still from a video.

many thanks.

 

[foxhole]

Any hump cannot prevent water flowing over it, would need to be as high as depth of gutter to overflow.

 

[blup]

The old gutter pipe on neighbours side has been cut and joined to the new gutter at the boundary, unless fitted correctly it will leak.

The damp could be long standing, was the room re plastered before you purchased?

Blup

 

[Diver Fred]

Think the problem is at the joint. Also it looks like something is supporting the guttering at the joint and more concerning is the raised slate. Water could be getting underneath the raised slate and tracking along the wall plate.

To be honest I think your neighbour has the more problems - they are either ignorant of or that if they're aware they are hoping you will resolved at no cost to them.

 

[Coopa]

I agree with wgt52. That tile poking up is definitely an issue and has been for a while because it f the staining to their wall . Also can I ask if you know what is fitted under the tiles where they have been cut to meet each other ?

 

[Notch7]

This needs further investigation, roof and gutter.

the haunching around chimney looks wrong, I’m not a roofer but that’s normally weathered using lead flashings

the neighbours tiles near the chimney and are damaged and could be leaking

there’s the poking up tile others have pointed out

there is some strange markings on the remaining render and a short bit of gutter replaced above - there’s a chance there used to be a downpipes there. I wonder how many downpipes there are in the run of cottages - I would suggest standing back and see if you think the spacing is as it should be

If you can access the loft have a look and see if there are any leaks - it’s possible any leaks run down on top of the felt and come out behind the gutter.

is there any evidence of leaks around the chimney in the loft or on the gable dividing wall

 

[Diver Fred]

How is the junction between the old roof on your neighbours and the new roof on yours done? There dosen't appear to be any continuation of the slates across the join. Is there lead (or Aluminimum or copper) under the slates on both sides of the old and new roofs to cover the break in the bond?

 

[tell80]

OP,
Your new roof install is a lazy, incompetent bit of work.

1. Your new slate roof installation is wrong - it could have been "matched" with the slate roof covering of your neighbour. Eliminating the need for a conspicuous join, the slates could have flowed across the party wall - but it would have required more work.
2. The roof join is humped suggesting that however it was bonded below the roof cover it was done wrong. The hidden tile battens will be cocked up.
3. A Bonding Gutter with an upstand could have been used?
4. Perhaps a lead strip has been used?
5. Whatever, the proud join is likely to leak.

6. The chimney stack mortar fillet is wrong, the stack should have lead flashing.
7. Your neighbour's gutter appears to be leaking on his side at the CI to plastic connector. Damp stains can be seen below on his render. Pics of the gutters from above needed.
8. As above, are any leaks or staining showing up below your roof?
9. How was the your new roof covering joined to the roof on the left of your house?
10. Whats happening on the other side of the roof over the ridge?

Showing in your pics there are other remedial items that need attention.
If you are a mom with children then do not go climbing ladders.

 

[datarebal]

Union is leaking to neighbours side. They have a in busted slate on first course and at the top . All will leak.
You have a damaged gutter bracket.
Cables rendered over could also be a way in.
The rendered panel must be hiding something .
Having said that , the original gutter would have been ogee cast iron sat on the string brick course this would have been a much more suited job .
It's unlikely the join in the slate has been done with out soakers.

 

[Makie]

OP,
Your new roof install is a lazy, incompetent bit of work.

1. Your new slate roof installation is wrong - it could have been "matched" with the slate roof covering of your neighbour. Eliminating the need for a conspicuous join, the slates could have flowed across the party wall - but it would have required more work.
2. The roof join is humped suggesting that however it was bonded below the roof cover it was done wrong. The hidden tile battens will be cocked up.
3. A Bonding Gutter with an upstand could have been used?
4. Perhaps a lead strip has been used?

1. The gauge on the rhs could be wrong so it may not have been possible to match in.
2. It doesn't.
3. A bonding gutter with an upstand is for a slate to tile join. Not a slate to slate.
4. More likely a grp joining strip - https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk...6TPHj2eCQf97wLiJLW4HfV1E4FFBeMtRoCriQQAvD_BwE

 

[Kirkyface]

Thanks again for your replies; this is so helpful for me to understand what to do next.

I do not know for certain what is beneath the roof tiles at the join of our two houses. I’ve taken a look in the loft and there is no damp that I can see there; indeed the only damp we are seeing is downstairs, both sides of the party wall. There is nothing upstairs or in the loft.

I’m alarmed that Tell80 suggests the roof is shoddy- I am very concerned about this. I’m afraid I can’t answer many of your questions as I simply don’t understand enough about roofs or the exact construction of our one. However I know that the reason the slates weren’t matched across the party wall is that the neighbour flat-out refused any suggestion of touching their slates. This was discussed at the time; They just wouldn’t accept an interlocked join, so we’re stuck with the ugly conspicuous join. I am not sure the construction underneath, but since several of you suggest this could be incorrect, I’ll try to get to the bottom of that.

Over the ridge there is a complex construction- their house has been extended with a flat roof, but ours has not; the exact join is hidden from view by next door’s extension, but I expect it has been done the same way as the front.

With regard to down pipes… oh boy that’s a tricky topic. The terrace has four houses. The only down pipes are at the ends- one at our house that discharges into the street, and another at the far end, around a corner and across to that house’s wrap-around extension. Since rainfall here (UK) has greatly increased since 1870 when these houses were built, this is obviously inadequate to anyone thinking clearly. But the neighbour has absolutely, absolutely refused to acknowledge a problem; he has asserted his legal right to use our downpipe and will not hear of any suggestion to alter it, whether it works or not. He insists this problem is of our causing, and ours alone. Not sure why he is so territorial over it, but I’m sure he has his reasons.

with regard to the leaking gutter join immediately to the right of the boundary, apparently this has been fixed, the neighbour tells us. It is possible that this was when that little piece of plastic guttering was put in, instead of the leaking old iron, but I can’t be sure it’s not still leaking.

despite having gazed up at this so many times already, I can’t believe I hadn’t noticed their lifted slate- thank you for pointing this out. Of course that will leak; I’ll try to mention it to them when they have calmed down and are willing to hear it. At the moment they’re set on pinning the blame on us and aren’t being reasonable.