architrave tolerance.

[VictorianModern]

Morning all.

I have had some architrave fitted on newly built walls and door frames and some of it is perfectly neat and flush and some have big gaps around the edges as big as around 6mm.
Also a couple of the mitred corners are a bit uneven. I’ll attach photos.

My question is - is this all within tolerance and will painting hide all of this once it’s been prepared.

 

[Wayners]

Think you should ask about that work.
Yes you can get the odd bit that needs some 2 pack filler but gaps should be less than you have there, especially up the edges.

Mitre joint in the architecture could be better

 

[johnny2007]

The gap could be due to door lining sticking out from the finished plaster.
Not something anyone notices imo.
However, solution would be to create a step in the architrave so it goes flush with the wall.
Router, table saw or planer for this task or simply add a sliced strip of timber along the external edge where the gap is.

 

[VictorianModern]

The gap could be due to door lining sticking out from the finished plaster.
Not something anyone notices imo.
However, solution would be to create a step in the architrave so it goes flush with the wall.
Router, table saw or planer for this task or simply add a sliced strip of timber along the external edge where the gap is.

It’s only like that at the top. At the floor level until about 3/4 of the way up is much closer to the wall. It’s starts coming away from the wall at the top quarter.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Mitres should always be tight with absolutely no gap at all. They should never need to be filled or caulked (which is why we have stuff like Mitre Mate TBH)

Architraves should always be tight to the door casing/door lining on the door side. On the plaster side you ideally want them to sit no more than 2 or 3mm off the surface of the plasterboard, but that gap is down to the quality of the plasterwork, and how plumb the wall itself is and to a great extent is outside the control of the installation joiner. A fact of life is that plasterers almost invariably lay skim on thicker at the bottom of a wall, whilst dry liners and brickies don't always build walls perfectly plumb (whereas the joiner has to install the jambs absolutely plumb). With small gaps behind the outside the archis on painted work, up to 5mm or so, the standard approach is simply to fill the gap with acrylic caulk. For larger joints and on clear finished work (e.g. clear lacquered oak) it is more normal to build up the back.of the architrave by attaching a piece of material and hand planing it in to scribe it to the shape of the wall. This is a slightly awkward and somewhat fiddly job to do, so it really is better to get the wall right in the first place. So the gapping issue is a plasterwork fail

Either way, NO filler!

Where a true perfect fit is required one practice is for the joiner to make up a door opening form (basically a 4-sided very shallow box, the depth of the finished wall over borh layers of plaster, but with no top or bottom). This form is set into the opening by the joiner before the walls are skimmed, dead plumb, and the plasterer then works to this form. The form may be removed when the door casing/door lining are installed, or the form may be left in place and the casing/lining fixed to it. The architraves will hide the form once they are installed

 

[VictorianModern]

Mitres should always be tight with absolutely no gap at all. They should never need to be filled or caulked (which is why we have stuff like Mitre Mate TBH)

Architraves should always be tight to the door casing/door lining on the door side. On the plaster side you ideally want them to sit no more than 2 or 3mm off the surface of the plasterboard, but that gap is down to the quality of the plasterwork, and how plumb the wall itself is and to a great extent is outside the control of the installation joiner. A fact of life is that plasterers almost invariably lay skim on thicker at the bottom of a wall, whilst dry liners and brickies don't always build walls perfectly plumb (whereas the joiner has to install the jambs absolutely plumb). With small gaps behind the outside the archis on painted work, up to 5mm or so, the standard approach is simply to fill the gap with acrylic caulk. For larger joints and on clear finished work (e.g. clear lacquered oak) it is more normal to build up the back.of the architrave by attaching a piece of material and hand planing it in to scribe it to the shape of the wall. This is a slightly awkward and somewhat fiddly job to do, so it really is better to get the wall right in the first place. So the gapping issue is a plasterwork fail

Either way, NO filler!

Where a true perfect fit is required one practice is for the joiner to make up a door opening form (basically a 4-sided very shallow box, the depth of the finished wall over borh layers of plaster, but with no top or bottom). This form is set into the opening by the joiner before the walls are skimmed, dead plumb, and the plasterer then works to this form. The form may be removed when the door casing/door lining are installed, or the form may be left in place and the casing/lining fixed to it. The architraves will hide the form once they are installed

Thank you. Very helpful.

I think the bad mitred joints are bothering me more than the gaps at the sides. We bought quite decorative architrave and to see it not seamlessly join up on the mitres is disappointing. I just didn’t know if I was being too fussy. I’ll attach photos.

 

[johnny2007]

Mitres should always be tight with absolutely no gap at all. They should never need to be filled or caulked (which is why we have stuff like Mitre Mate TBH)

Architraves should always be tight to the door casing/door lining on the door side. On the plaster side you ideally want them to sit no more than 2 or 3mm off the surface of the plasterboard, but that gap is down to the quality of the plasterwork, and how plumb the wall itself is and to a great extent is outside the control of the installation joiner. A fact of life is that plasterers almost invariably lay skim on thicker at the bottom of a wall, whilst dry liners and brickies don't always build walls perfectly plumb (whereas the joiner has to install the jambs absolutely plumb). With small gaps behind the outside the archis on painted work, up to 5mm or so, the standard approach is simply to fill the gap with acrylic caulk. For larger joints and on clear finished work (e.g. clear lacquered oak) it is more normal to build up the back.of the architrave by attaching a piece of material and hand planing it in to scribe it to the shape of the wall. This is a slightly awkward and somewhat fiddly job to do, so it really is better to get the wall right in the first place. So the gapping issue is a plasterwork fail

Either way, NO filler!

Where a true perfect fit is required one practice is for the joiner to make up a door opening form (basically a 4-sided very shallow box, the depth of the finished wall over borh layers of plaster, but with no top or bottom). This form is set into the opening by the joiner before the walls are skimmed, dead plumb, and the plasterer then works to this form. The form may be removed when the door casing/door lining are installed, or the form may be left in place and the casing/lining fixed to it. The architraves will hide the form once they are installed

As usual, perfect explanation from j&k

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I think the bad mitred joints are bothering me more than the gaps at the sides. We bought quite decorative architrave and to see it not seamlessly join up on the mitres is disappointing. I just didn’t know if I was being too fussy. I’ll attach photos.

No, you are not being too fussy. The mitre joint is a very visible part of the architrave and needs to be right, whereas minor gaps on the outside edges of the archis or even the legs being a tad short can be disguised to the point of being fairly unobtrusive. TBH I think your joiner needs to reclibrate his mitre saw and that the ones you posted pics of are really not good enough.

 

[VictorianModern]

No, you are not being too fussy. The mitre joint is a very visible part of the architrave and needs to be right, whereas minor gaps on the outside edges of the archis or even the legs being a tad short can be disguised to the point of being fairly unobtrusive. TBH I think your joiner needs to reclibrate his mitre saw and that the ones you posted pics of are really not good enough.

So I spoke to my builder (I'm having a complete reno and extension) and he's saying that is normal tolerance and the decorater will fill in the gaps before painting.

BS?

BTW the door frames and wall are all new and built by him!

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The gaps at the back edges of the architraves, well, maybe. OK. The open mitre joints are, however, very poor. Fill them and they will eventually either crack or open up. So saying that you can fill those, and that it is acceptable - that's complete BS. But I'm a joiner. Your man is presumably a bricky, not a chippy!

One of those bad mitres also showed signs of mesh applied in a corner behind and to the right of the archis. Is that how it is finished?

 

[VictorianModern]

The gaps at the back edges of the architraves, well, maybe. OK. The open mitre joints are, however, very poor. Fill them and they will eventually either crack or open up. So saying that you can fill those, and that it is acceptable - that's complete BS. But I'm a joiner. Your man is presumably a bricky, not a chippy!

One of those bad mitres also showed signs of mesh applied in a corner behind and to the right of the archis. Is that how it is finished?

In all fairness that wall where you see the webbing hasn’t been plastered yet, as we are waiting for windows to be fitted on that side

With regard to the mitred joints - they have been done by a carpenter and one that multiple people we know have recommended as a “perfectionist with an eye for detail”. He’s one of the reasons we went with this builder and his team.

So if this really is bad work as you say, then we have an issue as he’s got a weeks of work in the house to go still, including fitting a bespoke kitchen!!!

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I have just come on site this morning. Currently working on a listed building refurb where all the public area toilets have been completely redone, so all new walls, door casings, architraves, doors, tiling, plumbing, etc. Most of the toilets are now painted, but a couple aren't yet finished, so I took a picture of one of the archi corners. This is what I expect a mitre joint to look like:

Note the gap - or rather the complete lack of one. Now tell me that yours, with those gaps, are right...

 

[johnny2007]

I have just come on site this morning. Currently working on a listed building refurb where all the public area toilets have been completely redone, so all new walls, door casings, architraves, doors, tiling, plumbing, etc. Most of the toilets are now painted, but a couple aren't yet finished, so I took a picture of one of the archi corners. This is what I expect a mitre joint to look like:

View attachment 305222

Note the gap - or rather the complete lack of one. Now tell me that yours, with those gaps, are right...

The decorators have messed up your woodwork

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Nothing new there, then! It's only a bit of emulsion and they'll sand it off before glossing the archis, so not really anything to fret about

I'm more pizzed about the quality if wood we get on archis these days - full of knots and pith

 

[VictorianModern]

Sadly I’ve lost this battle. I met with the joiner this morning and he looked at me like o was crazy.
He said there’s so much glue on the architrave they can never move and the decorator will take care of all of these gaps.