Asbestos Woes

[omph]

HI Guys,

A few years ago when doing renovations, we wanted to plaster the ceiling but it has an artex finish and it is suspected asbestos, so we installed a false ceiling thus mitigating the need to deal with it.

Its come back to bite me 10 years later as the lighting for the kitchen has stopped working, and that means having to take out chunks of the suspected asbestos ceiling to get to the cables. I know roughly where the inbound cables are and I may need to remove about 20cm x 20cm. The plan is to run new cables on the faux ceiling as the older cables are at least 30 years old.

I am stuck between a rock and a hard place, and deciding whether I should do it solo or get someone, but the latter seems overkill for such a small job. I was thinking about taping a bin bag around the area, poke a hole though the bottom, put my hand through it, tape the bag to the wrist and cut out the drywall with a stanley knife, dispose of the goods and put some vaseline on the corners to stop any break aways from becoming air bourne. I would appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Mr diy a lot.]

1. ‘suspected asbestos’ Are we actually sure it’s asbestos - have you had it tested or did a mate down the pub say it was and now it’s gospel?! No harm to send it off to a lab for a small cost to have it tested once and for all - might put the mind at rest.

2. I’ll put my neck out on this one and prepare to be cancelled by the mods…. One time asbestos exposure is no where near as dangerous as the hype would have us believe. (covid 19 anybody!) it’s actually pretty harmless short and long term in a small one time dose to the vast majority. It’s consistent exposure over a much longer period of time in the workplace etc that causes the problems.

3. Stick a mask on, open all the windows, have the hoover at the ready and get to it carefully yourself. Getting someone in for it is sledge hammer to crack a nut.

 

[johnny2007]

As above, but I would avoid the hoover.
Better to use damp rags to collect the dust.
One time exposure does not have any effect, that's now a known fact.

 

[omph]

Thanks for the input guys.

Used a p3 respirator mask, cut through the artex/plasterboard, all was going well until I pulled off the board to discover a load of insulation - great. And to add insult to injury, I was close to getting the cables, but not close enough, so that means I will have to cut up some more.
Due to the insulation, and the fact it was blowing into the kitchen,I have boarded over the cut area and used some silicone to seal it off. I have taken some samples of the artex and the insulation, and am going to get it tested.
Any advise on how I should move forward would be much appreciated. I fear the worst, that I may have to fork out an arm and leg to get the entire roof removed professionally.

 

[Mr diy a lot.]

A few thoughts:

1. Thinking about the reason you are poking about the ceiling in the first place - it would be unlikely that the reason for your lights not working is dodgy cabling. It seems that you think swapping out old cabling with new will sort the problem. It’s much more likely to be a connection issue in one of the fittings or a dodgy switch etc. 30 year old cable is still fairly modern cabling.

2. Yes there would very likely be insulation and general dust and crap between the floors. But it’s just makes the job a bit messy and unpleasant and itchy - it’s not a reason to stop.

3. That’s good you are getting it tested but my hunch tells me it’s not going to be asbestos but happy to be proved wrong!

 

[Wayners]

Shaving foam and drill through is a one way but you need bigger area.
Tbh I'd wash an area off with hot water and scouting sponge. Or steam it off just enough to get through. Most are frightened to touch it though so why not get it tested. Find out for sure.
I've mix loads up back in the late 80s with asbestos in and scraped may off. No asbestos after 1990 in any of the artex brands if that helps. Still get it tested though for what it cost

 

[Deleted member 174758]

2. I’ll put my neck out on this one and prepare to be cancelled by the mods…. One time asbestos exposure is no where near as dangerous as the hype would have us believe. (covid 19 anybody!) it’s actually pretty harmless short and long term in a small one time dose to the vast majority. It’s consistent exposure over a much longer period of time in the workplace etc that causes the problems.

I'm sorry, but you completely wrong, there. Whilst long term exposure certainly makes you more likely to contract asbestos-related diseases, that's true, but even one time inhalation can result in problems. It's dependent on volume of fibres inhaled and the susceptibility of the individual. What it is NOT like is a virus. Inhaled asbestos fibres can easily become trapped in the pleura of the lungs, and because the body cannot get rid of these fibres, being a non-dissolving mineral the body often creates scar tissue around these foreign bodies (called pleural plaques), In very bad cases that can lead to mesothelioma. Take that from someone who occasionally installed asbestos fire boards in the 1970s and has now got several minor pleural plaques to show for it.

3. Stick a mask on, open all the windows, have the hoover at the ready and get to it carefully yourself. Getting someone in for it is sledge hammer to crack a nut.

"Stick a mask on" is poor advice. Cheap paper and fibre masks are insufficient to deal with asbestos safely. What you need to wear is a FACE-FITTED P3 MASK (something like a JSP Force 8, which the user can check is working properly, themselves). If the mask isn't face fitted fibres can still be breathed in around the edges of the mask, especially if breathing hard in confined spaces. Also, OP, get yourself one of those cheap disposable "romper suits" (paper coveralls) to protect your clothing

Hoover? As in domestic vacuum cleaner? Absolutely NOT! That is very hazardous advice!!! The way you mitigate asbestos fibres is to damp down the material as far as possible with water (dampened asbestos fibres are far less likely to become airborne). BTW Vaseline won't catch the fibres, either OP. Asbestos fibres are really tiny, for example chrysotile asbestos fibre bundles are just 0.1–1 µm, (micrometres) across, with the individual fibrils being even finer, at 0.02–0.03 µm each. This is far too small to be resolvable by the human eye. In comparison a human hair is 17 μm to 181 μm across. So a domestic vacuum cleaner, even one with a HEPA filter will just suck-up the fibres, sucked them straight through the filter bag and blow them straight through the main filter - to end up floating around the house for a very long time. The ONLY vacuum cleaners we are permitted to use in asbestos handling are industrial H-class vacuums, and even there the guys doing removal for a living keep the use of these tools to a minimum

Personally I'd try to see if it was possible to cut into the electrics elsewhere and re-route it around this area. If it isn't, I'd remove carpeting, etc from the work area, tape off all the door openings, mask-up, gently remove a section of plasterboard to gain access making sure that everything was thoroughly damped down with water. I'd certainly attempt to re-route the wiring if possible to avoid the area, or conduit it so that such a removal would not be necessary in the future, do the repairs, then replace the board(s).

Asbestos is hazardous. Taking basic precautions is neither difficult, nor particularly expensive (the most expensive thing is a £25 mask which can be used for all sorts of things in the future). Not taking precautions (especially on multiple occasions) means you may have health issues 20 to 50 years down the line - and by then it's too late

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Used a p3 respirator mask, cut through the artex/plasterboard, all was going well until I pulled off the board to discover a load of insulation - great.

What does the insulation look like? A lot of "cotton candy" brown, yellow or pink insulation is generally later Mineral wool or fibreglass insulation which contains no asbestos.