I've just bought a house built in 1962 and discovered that it has a black (bitumen?) damp proof membrane laid over a concrete base and covering the entire ground floor. I would like to lay decorative cork tiles throughout but wonder what leveling compound I should use before laying the cork. The builders I use were unsure (they rarely lay cork or know what best leveling compound works/sticks to this sub-floor) so any advice would be helpful please. Thanks.
Black (bitumen?) damp proof membrane and leveling compound.
- Thread starter positivepete
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Unfortunately you need to remove as much of the bitumen as you can either by scraping it off or using a machine, nothing sticks to it !! if you get most off you can apply a (neoprene primer) (google it) then your ready for a water based screed. For screed info visit www.f-ball.co.uk. there is also info on neoprene primers, it's called P131.
the bitumin your on about is thick as in 1cm+ ? if so you cant remove this as it is a dpm and not adhesive residue as i think 'mac' is thinking?
Follow the link that has been posted and speak to there tech people to get advice on this.
Follow the link that has been posted and speak to there tech people to get advice on this.
Sent an email enquiry to F Ball as suggested and Sharon from their office phoned back quickly and advised that if the bitumen in actually asphalt (some 10 -20 cm thick) then, with further prep tiles can be overlaid. If it is bitumen glue then it needs to be removed. I need to double-check but I think (hope??!) it is asphalt! I will also use F Ball to supply the materials as the response from them has been great.
Thanks for the response to my query - brief and very helpful!
Thanks for the response to my query - brief and very helpful!
I have a bungalow 50 years old entirely tiled with thick (15mm approx) cork tiles laid on asphalt on a solid concrete floor, many of which in the hall have become loose and rock when walked upon.
Having spent several hours hurting my back and knees I can now verify that taking up the asphalt and sealing with diluted PVA on floor and tile, then re- laying tiles with regular black water based tile cement is a waste of time, after a day of walking over they have become loose again.
I have some SBR and wonder if I sealed the tile underside with that, it would induce the tile to stick to the cement. (instead of PVA )
Whilst F-Ball may have a suitable adhesive it is sure to be expensive seeing as it needs to be laid on approx 6mm thick (equal to the original asphalt thickness, so that loose tiles are replaced at same level as those surrounding.
When asphalt is removed there are remnants left on both concrete and tile which are virtually painted in/on and would be impossible to remove without taking surface off both.
Any experience from others would be welcome. This must be a relatively common problem in bungalows of this age.
Having spent several hours hurting my back and knees I can now verify that taking up the asphalt and sealing with diluted PVA on floor and tile, then re- laying tiles with regular black water based tile cement is a waste of time, after a day of walking over they have become loose again.
I have some SBR and wonder if I sealed the tile underside with that, it would induce the tile to stick to the cement. (instead of PVA )
Whilst F-Ball may have a suitable adhesive it is sure to be expensive seeing as it needs to be laid on approx 6mm thick (equal to the original asphalt thickness, so that loose tiles are replaced at same level as those surrounding.
When asphalt is removed there are remnants left on both concrete and tile which are virtually painted in/on and would be impossible to remove without taking surface off both.
Any experience from others would be welcome. This must be a relatively common problem in bungalows of this age.
I did follow this advice but may consider another option....my new neighbours lifted their asphalt floor and laid a new dpm then compound....then solid wood floor. I am still thinking of cork tiles.....so my builders have suggested lifting the asphalt then applying two coats of bitumen as a dpm them a layer of plywood then the cork.
Any advice would be good....even a referral to a local flooring specialist (Wells, Somerset) if anyone can recommend one! But if this solution is ok then I'll stick with it - I'm hoping to move in on the 3rd September so need a solution fast!
Thanks.
Hi Pete,
I have the answer.Iam a floor layer with 25 five years experience.i try to keep up on new products and a company called ardex uk make a latex based levelling compound called (arditex na)that goes straight over bitumen to seal it.then a liquid membrane goes over this called ardex dpm 1c.you cant put the dpm directly on to the bitumen as a reaction will occur,then over this with their primer then a further coat of levelling compound.i have used this several times now and its a fab time saving product.the dpm is about £150 trade and does 15-18 squre metres or they do a bigger or smaller tin. there are some links below. hope this helps. (http://www.ardex.co.uk/damp_proof_membranes.asp)
(http://www.ardex.co.uk/pdfs/arditex%20na.pdf)
I have the answer.Iam a floor layer with 25 five years experience.i try to keep up on new products and a company called ardex uk make a latex based levelling compound called (arditex na)that goes straight over bitumen to seal it.then a liquid membrane goes over this called ardex dpm 1c.you cant put the dpm directly on to the bitumen as a reaction will occur,then over this with their primer then a further coat of levelling compound.i have used this several times now and its a fab time saving product.the dpm is about £150 trade and does 15-18 squre metres or they do a bigger or smaller tin. there are some links below. hope this helps. (http://www.ardex.co.uk/damp_proof_membranes.asp)
(http://www.ardex.co.uk/pdfs/arditex%20na.pdf)
Many thanks routerkid!! Your message was received just as my builders were laying out a levelling compound to take F.Ball's F75 (X 2) over which will be put a primer then finally an ardex levelling compound that can take cork floor tiles.
Your route would have saved the time and money its taken to lift the asphalt and I would have gone this way had I known!!! However, one blessing is that I am also erecting a 5 X 3 metre shed in the garden so the ashpalt will go under that!!!
(I have printed your advice though for future reference for my builders!!!)
Thanks again.
Router kid, you are the only person to answer most directly the question i had. Thanks for that.
I have a bitumen dpm over concrete floor, under parquet, and the smell is not good. Bitumen is not the aroma i hoped for when i bought the house. No wonder the owner left the room cold when we bought it!
I want to lay carpet, question is - on what?
I was in two minds, put a breather membrane over the parquet and then lay as normal. The breather membrane stopping air (and smell), but not moisture. But i am worried about rotting the parquet. If this seems ok, i will still do this, but now am erring towards something else.
The second, now my preferred option, was to take up the parquet and try and screed over the bitumen. Im pretty sure the bitumen is the dpm, and not just an adhesive so not something take up without consequence or with ease.
So, now, i am going to take up the parquet, and screed with Arditex NA. Can then put the breather and carpet.
If anyone thinks this mad please let me know. I really dont want to take up the bitumen, it looks like a massive job. But I am desperate to get that smell and room sorted and any advice appreciated.
I have a bitumen dpm over concrete floor, under parquet, and the smell is not good. Bitumen is not the aroma i hoped for when i bought the house. No wonder the owner left the room cold when we bought it!
I want to lay carpet, question is - on what?
I was in two minds, put a breather membrane over the parquet and then lay as normal. The breather membrane stopping air (and smell), but not moisture. But i am worried about rotting the parquet. If this seems ok, i will still do this, but now am erring towards something else.
The second, now my preferred option, was to take up the parquet and try and screed over the bitumen. Im pretty sure the bitumen is the dpm, and not just an adhesive so not something take up without consequence or with ease.
So, now, i am going to take up the parquet, and screed with Arditex NA. Can then put the breather and carpet.
If anyone thinks this mad please let me know. I really dont want to take up the bitumen, it looks like a massive job. But I am desperate to get that smell and room sorted and any advice appreciated.
Did you get this sorted? I have exactly the same issue - one room stinks of bitumen - which is odd, as parquet is throughout the downstairs but its really just this room which is really bad. Another room makes things smell if they are left on the floor, but its not as bad as the worst offending room.
I am at my wits end with it - next step i think is to dig up the floor and put a new concrete floor + insulation in.
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Great these links do help me a lot for my husband health issues.