Can I claim against builder for damage? (Ed.)

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Got builder in (hes done a few things for us before) to tile our ensuite shower. So he removed the existing bar mixer showed, tiled it then replaced it.
Next day there was a leak. Called him back. He had a look and said sorted now. We were out that night came home to water gushing out of the shower unit (and apparently back into the dividing wall). £1000s of damage to bedroom floor, ceiling of living room below, floor below, kitchen floor, furniture sofa, etc.

I called out an emergency plumber (had insurance for). He said the builder had not used washers, has overtightened it and basically knackered the shower causing it split. All I'm getting from the builder is it must be something else, not my work. Heres a text from him.

"just for an absolute clarity, I didn’t deal with any pipe work at your house in any way other than putting a stop end on your shower mixer fittings between taking your shower mixer off and then putting it back on for the purpose of tilling the area as instructed.
Any problems that arose from existing pipe work which as you both acknowledged was very problematic in the past with multiple leaks etc. cannot be rationally and/or reasonably attributed to any of my work. The list of the materials and all photographs, videos etc. taken throughout the process and initial leak clearly indicates that I didn’t do any alterations to your existing pipes whatsoever. I hope you and your family won’t hate me for saying this and understand my point without trying to blame me for your misfortune. Always at your kind service"

No idea what he means by existing pipework? We had a leak a few years ago when the hot water tank overheated and split but not the pipework. He even tried saying there must be a dodgy fitting in the wall space.

Had another plumber today - to look at fitting a new shower. He confirmed nothing wrong with the pipework - its just copper pipe from airing cupboard through wall to shower where you connected the mixer unit. The builder just did not do it properly for some reason and in the lieu of there beind enough pipe to refit he just tightened it up too much as well.

My insurance excess for water leak is £750. (because of past claim). Its going to cost me a fortune. House is for sale and this is going to cause a major delay getting this sorted.

Am I being unreasonable here expecting the Builder to deal with these costs? I have no issue if he screwed up and admits it but he has insurance for a reason surely?
 
If your Insurance will cover it, then claim. You can pursue the excess from him quite easily via small claim court.

Small claim court will take a view that it's unlikely to be coincidence. You may need a statement from the emergency plumber confirming what he found. Unfortunately, people tend not to take out the necessary insurance, but if he fears a CCJ, you will likely get him to entertain a negotiation at least. It's possible your insurance will go after him anyway. But it's also possible that he's right and the pipework was cr@p to start with. Worth considering this when negotiating.
 
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What washer was missing and what part was overtightened. Which part exactly split? You would expect a leak not catastrophic failure of the shower unit/bar mixer.
 
No idea - I'm not a plumber. All I know is the shower mixer is attached to the end of the pipes. Like I said no idea myself but its where you screw the mixer unit onto the end of the pipe?

It leaked a little and, apparently, all he did was massively tighten it and completely knacker the thread somehow. Plumber mentioned some filter inside or something.

When I got home it was spraying everywhere from the mixer unit. Yes it wasn't a new unit but it didn't leak at all before - he replaced it and caused this.

I've had it confirmed the pipework is fine. I appreciate this guy did not fit the new mixer and I appreciate mistakes happen. If I'd done this, I'd have no choice but to claim off my accidental damage insurance. Hes done this, caused it and is refusing to get involved.

Can you imagine this going to coury?

Judge : So when did the leak happen?
Me: It leaked a little he came back, said it was sorted, then a few hours later it happened.
Builder: It wasn't me - it was the other pipework.
Other Plumber: Nothing wrong with the pipework - the leak was because of builder error refitting the shower.
Judge: OK Builder how are you going to prove its not your fault here - its a bit of a coincidence.
 
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No idea - I'm not a plumber. All I know is the shower mixer is attached to the end of the pipes. Like I said no idea myself but its where you screw the mixer unit onto the end of the pipe?

It leaked a little and, apparently, all he did was massively tighten it and completely knacker the thread somehow. Plumber mentioned some filter inside or something.

When I got home it was spraying everywhere from the mixer unit. Yes it wasn't a new unit but it didn't leak at all before - he replaced it and caused this.

I've had it confirmed the pipework is fine. I appreciate this guy did not fit the new mixer and I appreciate mistakes happen. If I'd done this, I'd have no choice but to claim off my accidental damage insurance. Hes done this, caused it and is refusing to get involved.

Can you imagine this going to coury?

Judge : So when did the leak happen?
Me: It leaked a little he came back, said it was sorted, then a few hours later it happened.
Builder: It wasn't me - it was the other pipework.
Other Plumber: Nothing wrong with the pipework - the leak was because of builder error refitting the shower.
Judge: OK Builder how are you going to prove its not your fault here - its a bit of a coincidence.
so the builder removed the shower mixer, tiled then refitted it to the hot and cold feed?

There are various types of seal used in plumbing and non plumbers often dont understand (me included sometimes). It may be a tap type fitting which needs a fibre or rubber washer to seal the end of the fitting, without the washer theres no chance it will seal.

One thing Ive learnt is: dont start overtightening as if you need to do it to try and seal, something is wrong.

Your builder is playing a game of avoiding responsibility, possible because he has no public liability (you would be amazed how many dont )
 
Yes that's correct.

Of course, I'm not a plumber either so I'm paying him to know what hes doing and safely replace the shower. Which he didn't.

Hes fed me some crap. Like I said he came back when it leaked a little and said it was sorted. All he'd done is tighten it massively.
As you can see above, hes blaming my pipework, hes tried to tell me theres no water under the shower tray so it can't be that (yeh it all went behind the wall!). Tried to tell me because I've claimed before it means its an existing problem (it was the tank before).
Told me theres a fitting inside the wall thats failed - all total crap of course.

Yes I was wondering if hes got no insurance to be honest. He keeps trying to ring me I'm ignoring him now because I'm fed up of his bull. He did leave me a pretty sheepish voice mail too. All leads me to believe hes crapping it now because he doesn't have insurance.

I've advised the insurance company of what happened but waiting for them to get back to me. If needs be I'll be starting in small claims court I guess.

Thing is so far its £750 excess for main insurance, £50 excess for home emergency insurance, £120 for new shower unit, £100 for plumber to sort out his mess and fit one properly. Also, due to previous claim for water loss as above my excess is already £750 - theres going to be a massive insurance cost for me next year. My house WAS for sale - this is going to delay things by weeks so thats indirectly causing me money. Let alone the time we've had to spend cleaning up, sorting the insurance etc, hassle (can't use our living room at the moment) and the obvious stress. If I add up all the intangibles its going to be a lot!
 
Bar mixers have a distinct flat black rubber washer on the hot and cold inlets. Similar to a washing machine connection washer. There are usually small dome filters within the connection space also.
If the builder was unaware these items existed, he has no business messing about with plumbing.
 
Bar mixers have a distinct flat black rubber washer on the hot and cold inlets. Similar to a washing machine connection washer. There are usually small dome filters within the connection space also.
If the builder was unaware these items existed, he has no business messing about with plumbing.

Yep plumber I called out said no washers. He also mentioned the filters I think which he said were broken because he'd tightened it up so much.

I'm beginning to realize that his plumbing skills are somewhat lacking.
 
Builders for building, plumbers for plumbing ...
It helps to familiarise oneself with simplistic plumbing stuff.
At the beginning of any extension, we encounter all manner of stuff underground, including water supply pipes. If they end up being struck, then it's not just the repair to the pipe itself, but checking that the inevitable influx of scale into the cold domestic system, has not affected the filters and jets etc.
 
It helps to familiarise oneself with simplistic plumbing stuff.
At the beginning of any extension, we encounter all manner of stuff underground, including water supply pipes. If they end up being struck, then it's not just the repair to the pipe itself, but checking that the inevitable influx of scale into the cold domestic system, has not affected the filters and jets etc.
tbh my comment was a bit smart-arse esque. What I mean by that is there will of course be builders, general builders whatever you want to call them who are good at plumbing. Equally, there will be plumbers who aren't that great at plumbing. However ...

I suppose my thought process is, if in doubt, don't ask the 'builder' to do all trades unless they have a proven track record that can be checked. Let them stick to the building and get other trades to do their respective trades. I see YT vid after vid where a 'builder' has made a complete mess of things like plumbing, electrics etc.
 
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