Can I use my existing phone socket for ethernet connection?

[Tiantianisfox]

Hi, I have plenty of these phone socket scattered across my flat. I would like to be able to have ethernet socket instead of the phone socket, which I think its doable.

However, my current router is connected to a openreach 5C mk4 master socket. I wonder can I somehow send the ethernet data back from the master socket and then have access from my ethernet drops?

 

[winston1]

The master socket is the property of Open Reach and you are not allowed to interfere with it as you have by unscrewing it from the wall.

 

[AndyPRK]

Yes, a minimum of 4 wires are required for ethernet. But I assume this will be slower than the usual number.

Cable after the master socket does not belong to OR.

I assume you will have a hub somewhere. I would think you would want 8 wires between your router and hub for decent speed.
Oh you appear to be very lucky and have 8 wires!

 

[Sureitsoff?]

luckily your extension socket has been wired using cat5 or 6 cable so you can use the cable for ethernet but need a different faceplate. if you place a single "ethernet"socket next to the phone socket then connect your router output to it, with another socket in place of the extension socket you can have your computer there. what you cant do is "daisy chain" all the computer sockets. and the sockets cannot be wired pin 1to pin1 etc

 

[davelx]

luckily your extension socket has been wired using cat5 or 6 cable so you can use the cable for ethernet but need a different faceplate. if you place a single "ethernet"socket next to the phone socket then connect your router output to it, with another socket in place of the extension socket you can have your computer there. what you cant do is "daisy chain" all the computer sockets. and the sockets cannot be wired pin 1to pin1 etc

Premise wiring should always be straight - same pin numbers linked at each end. If a crossover is needed it is done via the patch cord that connects the device to the premise wiring. These days most devices auto-negotiate so crossovers are rarely needed.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

Premise wiring should always be straight - same pin numbers linked at each end. If a crossover is needed it is done via the patch cord that connects the device to the premise wiring. These days most devices auto-negotiate so crossovers are rarely needed.

i understand that it is pin for pin but pairs are not used 1/2, 3/4 etc

 

[davelx]

i understand that it is pin for pin but pairs are not used 1/2, 3/4 etc

Twisted pairs are absolutely essential. You have to use the correct pair for each signal. The cores are colour coded, not numbered,. the socket pins are numbered and the pair pin wiring is 1/2 (orange-white/orange), 3/6 (green-white/green), 4/5 (blue/blue-white), 7/8 (brown-white/brown). It is also important to minimise the length of untwisted cores as untwisting increases crosstalk and can lad to data errors on longer runs or in electrically noisy environments.

 

[333rocky333]

Quick question,
The cable looped round in the back of the box, would that cause any issues

 

[Sureitsoff?]

no

 

[SUNRAY]

The master socket is the property of Open Reach and you are not allowed to interfere with it as you have by unscrewing it from the wall.

Rubbish.

The master socket does indeed belong to your network provider such as BT/Openreach and you are not permitted to tamper with it or the preceeding wiring... but there is nothing to stop you detaching it from the back box in order to do your extention wiring... as is your intention.

Yes, a minimum of 4 wires are required for ethernet. But I assume this will be slower than the usual number.

Cable after the master socket does not belong to OR.

I assume you will have a hub somewhere. I would think you would want 8 wires between your router and hub for decent speed.
Oh you appear to be very lucky and have 8 wires!

Unless you're looking at some super dooper speed only 4 wires are used

Twisted pairs are absolutely essential. You have to use the correct pair for each signal. The cores are colour coded, not numbered,. the socket pins are numbered and the pair pin wiring is 1/2 (orange-white/orange), 3/6 (green-white/green), 4/5 (blue/blue-white), 7/8 (brown-white/brown). It is also important to minimise the length of untwisted cores as untwisting increases crosstalk and can lad to data errors on longer runs or in electrically noisy environments.

So it is perfectly feesible to add an ethernet socket beside your master and the first extention sockets and just use those 2 pairs (orange and green with their whites) This will only give the option to have one ethernet point at the location of the first extention socket.

Additionally it is feesible to use a double ethernet socket at the 2 locations and the second wired using 1/2 (blue-white/blue), 3/6 (brown-white/brown).

Would it be easier/better for you if the router were located at the PC?

 

[ericmark]

We see things like correctly terminated. And the pair will have an impedance, and the twisting of the pair is important to have that impedance, due to starting with two then four then eight the pairs are not as expected, there are different plans but this

is typical note the green - green/white pair. It is the same with telephone cables, the twist is important.

The telephone has just two wires, and the polarity swaps to ring the bell, when it reaches the house a network is used with capacitors and resistors to store the energy and to enable the bell to ring, your allowed 5 REN or 5 one REN bells, however cordless phones don't need the network to ring the bell, there was the option of two types of ring, using two numbers, one would auto switch on the fax machine, which would in turn turn off the telephone to get a better signal.

When broad band came in we started using band pass filters to separate broad band and telephone, but internal phone lines became a problem, as for a phone using brown and blue would work, but for digital it would not, and I know with my own house to get a reasonable speed all the original wiring for phones had to be disconnected. It worked fine in the days of fax and phone, but not broad band.

With last house I did install some LAN cables, but the LAN socket

tends to group the wires together so for A it shows 1, 2, 3, 6 for example not 1, 2, 3, 4 which one would expect, my simple tester will show if all wires connected and if 1 goes to 1 etc. But it is very easy to end up with a brown - blue pair instead of a brown - brown/white pair, and the tester will not highlight the error.

The LAN still works with the error, but speed is reduced. As yet this house is all wireless, I intend to fit a LAN, but still on my todo list, in the main due to problems with the broad band and the possibility the point where it enters the house will change.

My son in his house fitted a server in the loft and loads of LAN sockets, intention was to have no wireless, however so many items are not available in a wired version, my TRV heads can't be hard wired, my smart sockets can't be hard wired, and the list goes on, so even if I do like my son and hard wire loads of LAN sockets to a switch, (switch is one step better than hub, but not as good as a router) still need wifi.

So there is a limit and not sure the point in having a speed between PC's which is better than incoming broad band.

 

[SUNRAY]

Thanks Eric, the only bit I'll correct is the ringing current is AC not reversev polarity.

And thanks for the pics, my suggestion for 2 sockets on the same cable:

 

[winston1]

Rubbish.

The master socket does indeed belong to your network provider such as BT/Openreach and you are not permitted to tamper with it or the preceeding wiring... but there is nothing to stop you detaching it from the back box in order to do your extention wiring... as is your intention.

Here we go again. You are not permitted to move the master socket from the wall (as he has done). You are allowed to remove the front of the master socket only.

 

[winston1]

The telephone has just two wires, and the polarity swaps to ring the bell, when it reaches the house a network is used with capacitors and resistors to store the energy and to enable the bell to ring, your allowed 5 REN or 5 one REN bells, however cordless phones don't need the network to ring the bell,

Lots of errors here. The bell is rung by sending AC around 17 to 25Hz down the line. Nothing to do with polarity reverse which only happens when the phone is answered to do with metering. The capacitor is in series with the bell to block the D.C. line voltage, nothing to do with storing energy. There is a resistor 470K in the master box purely so the line can be remote tested with no phone plugged in. Max REN is 4 not 5, though in practice you may get away with more on a short line. The ringing circuit on the base of a cordless phone is the same as a wired phone. Many modern phones only have 2 wires and ignore the capacitor in the master box because they have a capacitor built into the phone.

 

[FrodoOne]

Here we go again. You are not permitted to move the master socket from the wall (as he has done). You are allowed to remove the front of the master socket only.

This is an "interesting" discussion - as viewed by this "outsider".

If the "wiring" concerned is still in use in any way, shape or form by any "service" that was or is now provided by the "Service Provider", it is probable that it is still "owned" by that "Service Provider", if it was installed by them in the first place.

However, if that "Service Provider" has relinquished any "service provision" (because of non-payment of fees or any other consideration), they cannot reasonably maintain "ownership" of any of their relinquished assets, unless they come and remove them - at their cost.