Cheap Xantia

[ninebob]

Most of you will already know by now my strategy of buying cheap cars (see here: http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14822 ).

So, when the peugeot failed its MOT recently I put it on eBay with no reserve and set about finding a cheap replacement.

I am now the proud owner of a 1996P Xantia 1.6LX. Electric everything including air con, seems to be generally in good nick and quite nippy, 120000 miles. Tax and MOT until end of February. I have 2 queries:

1. Before I reveal how much it cost me, would anyone like to suggest what i should have paid? I found it on eBay and the price I won it for was very surprising, maybe not many people saw it?

2. I had been forewarned of suspension trouble on these models, and as advised, when I picked it up I made sure it went up and down as it should with the conrol on the console. All seemed OK, but the ride quality on the way home was not the smooth "magic carpet experience" I was expecting - quite the opposite in fact. Although it corners marvellously, each pothole in the road jars the rear of the car quite sharply, and bumps seem to be amplified with a series of bounces. Is this normal or indicative of a problem, and how might I go about rectifying it?

Any advice or experience from fellow Xantia owners appreciated (SS, you have one don't you?)

Cheers,
Simon

 

[AdamW]

The Xantia is quite a big heavy car so the 1.6 petrol engine probably turned a lot of people off the idea. But you don't buy a Xantia in order to have something to burn up the competition at Santa Pod! Also people usually go for diesels in large French cars, so being a petrol engine probably made a lot of potential customers (minicab drivers?) look elsewhere. I am sure you have ended up with a very nice car for a good price, perhaps because you didn't follow these trends.

According to Parkers, anywhere from £285-£725 privately.

Citroen's groovy suspension is often overrated. My ex grew up being shuttled around in Citroens of all ages and descriptions, she told me that she often felt sea-sick after a long ride in one. I read that the new C5 suspension is intended to run 125,000 miles between services, so if it is REALLY bad it perhaps the whole hydraulic shebang needs a good seeing to, but provided the ride height is staying where it should then you probably have nothing to worry about.

If it all goes t*ts up you could just tell people you had it lowered for a sporty look

 

[david and julie]

The main problems with Citroen suspensions are the spheres and corroded pipes. The former are repairable, have a look in Autotrader and there will probably be a mobile guy who repairs them. The latter are time consuming and therefore expensive to do. People scrap Citroens with rotten pipes. These cars are very bumpy if you drive with the suspension on high or low setting you should have it midway. Good xantia's are a smooth if unusual ride.

As for price I agree with Adam's comments about engine size and perceived complexity and say around £200-£300.

 

[ninebob]

Perhaps not the fantastic bargain I originally thought then! The bottom end of Adam's suggestion is spot on, I paid £285 exactly for it. Seemed like a good deal for a P plate with tax and test till the end of Feb, but I guess it will all depend on how much it costs to iron out teething problems...

 

[AdamW]

I have been told that a good rule of thumb to car depreciation is, they halve in value every 3 years.

Now, that Xantia cost about 13K new... Using that rule it would depreciate to approximately 0.157 of its original value in 8 years.

So, about £2000.

If we follow the rule in reverse, your £285 car would have cost £1809.64 in 1996

Remember that £285 is not much more than what you would pay on one month of finance for a new car of that size, so you still have a bargain by that yardstick.

 

[noflame]

Price is about right for a non hydractive non diesel- the diesels fetch more because they go on for ever with little maintenance.
The ride will be hard because the spheres are probably flat- 25-30 quid each from eurospares or GSF, but bear in mind that the ride is not as good as a CX or GS because the front end has struts rather than arms.
You can change the spheres yourself with a big chain wrench or similar.
The pipes shouldn't corrode-from about 1990 on all Cit pipes were corrosion protected.
The main problems will come from non Citroen- thinking people who have fiddled in the past without the neccessary knowledge- the suspension is in reality a lot easier to fix and maintain than crude old fashioned coil springs and dampers.........
Go here for loads of helpful advice on repair, maintenance, etc:
http://www.andyspares.com/discussionforum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3

 

[chambsesf]

I used to have a Xantia with a harsh ride - due to the membranes within the spheres collapsing and the spheres filling with LHM fluid rather than half LHM and half Nitrogen. Got all 5 replaced, including the accumulator, for about £100 (this was about 4 years ago though). The difference was unbelievable.

The guy who did it was just outside Manchester - not sure where you are but there are bound to be specialists all over the country.

 

[ninebob]

The guy who did it was just outside Manchester - not sure where you are but there are bound to be specialists all over the country.

Would that have been this guy [ www.westroen-spheres.co.uk ] ? I can do Manchester and back from here in a day and less than £20 in petrol.

I've been looking at his site and it seems like a very good service for reasonable money, especially as the fitting is free (I have no mechanical knowledge whatsoever myself). It would appear that I could have all the spheres replaced, and the LHM fluid and filters changed, for less than £200.

Makes my £285 car a £485 one of course, but as it would then be virtually perfect I would still consider myself to be "in pocket"...

 

[chambsesf]

The guy who did it was just outside Manchester - not sure where you are but there are bound to be specialists all over the country.

Would that have been this guy [ www.westroen-spheres.co.uk ] ? I can do Manchester and back from here in a day and less than £20 in petrol.

That's the one - I couldn't remember his name until I saw your post. It does look like a normal house in an estate, but with a big garden and workshop round the back. Made a world of difference to my Xantia, and was quick and courteous.

 

[david and julie]

Sorry noflame but I disagree with you on this.

The main problems will come from non Citroen- thinking people who have fiddled in the past without the neccessary knowledge- the suspension is in reality a lot easier to fix and maintain than crude old fashioned coil springs and dampers.........

If you took this car to a Citroen main dealer (who are the ones presumably with the proper tools and knowledge) it wouldn't be worth repairing, because of the cost.

I have never spent £200+ on non OEM parts, on any car with conventional suspension at this age.

I may be wrong but I thought most Citroens also have springs and dampers now anyway.

 

[chambsesf]

I may be wrong but I thought most Citroens also have springs and dampers now anyway.

The smaller Citroens (C2, C3, Xsara, Picasso etc.) and the C8 MPV still do have conventional suspension, but the C5 has continued the trend of having hydropneumatic/hydractive suspension, perhaps to please the Citroen purists?

 

[noflame]

Citroen main dealer

These are most definately not the places to take a hyraulic Citroen to!!!
Have a look on the andyspares forum likn on my post above to gauge the opinion of Cit owners of Cit dealers.....the spares counters now basically refuse to acknowledge the existence of the older hydraulic cars-CX,DS,GS,BX, etc.
People who have them either do it all themselves, as I do, or go to a good known independant.
The thing with these cars is that if you understand them, and get right away from Ford/Vauxhall type thinking, they are a lot cheaper to run and fix than you think- this is excellent for enthusiasts because we can get the cars very cheaply, but most of the problems with them come from people who are used to bashing Astras with hammers- an example of this would be sphere fitting, they only need to be done up by hand: no tighter, and the hydraulic unions are the same- the uninitiated/ignorant assume that because of the massive hydraulic pressures they need to be tight, but this is not the case- the hydraulic pressure does the sealing for you!!!

the C5 has continued the trend

The C does have a sort of hydraulic system, but its a compromised one, uses different fluid to the earlier ones, and will probably be the last!

 

[david and julie]

Surely you don't think owners of Fords or Vauxhalls can get away with a tool kit consisting of just a hammer?

The fact is with conventional suspension you don't need to be an enthusiast or an expert because they are virtually fit and forget.

Its a bit unfair expecting the dealers to stock parts for the DS (very nice) when they stopped making them about 30years ago! That is like going into a Chrysler dealers for Hillman Imp parts.

 

[noflame]

OK, the DS may be a bit old, but they no longer acknowledge the BX which has not been out of production that long!

I would argue that hydropneumatic is the ultimate fit and forget system!!!It maintains its ride quality from new over many years, and very cheaply- compare the price of a new sphere, about £25, or half that if you have a flat one re-gassed, which can be fitted in minutes without even jacking up, and the price of a new coil-spring and the dismantling that goes with it!
There is also of course the load carrying,self levelling, and non-existent dive that goes with it.

My old BX is running on its original suspension still, after 200000 miles and 14 years- it has only needed the occasional fluid and sphere changes, both of which are really easy jobs.

Thats the best bit about the system- you don't need to be an enthusiast or expert at all- its just that people who have never worked on it are frightened to touch it and think that you do need to be an expert!!

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[AdamW]

I saw a C5 in a traffic queue the other night, the back end of it seemed to move very oddly during acceleration and braking...

What was the name of that Lancia that had the DS suspension? I think it was a Lancia. I used to walk past one parked on Pont Street in London, absolutely gorgeous car, looked brand new as well.