Conservatory Kitchen, building regulations

[duchard]

I'm in the process of moving house and the new house has recently had a conservatory built professionally along the width of the house back. The owner assures me that the conservatory does not require planning permission due to its size and glass percentage. I'm ok with this but since the build was completed the owners have built a fully fited kitchen turning it into a kitchen conservatory. This includes a sink and dishwasher, which obviously requires drainage, and a self installed gas cooker which has not been corgi registered. The owner has informed me that technically he should have obtained building regs for the drainage but that it wont be an issue after 2/3 years time..
Is this right or am I setting myself up for problems in the future if I was too sell? The electrics have all been done with building regs.

any advise would be appreciated.

 

[noseall]

There is no such thing as a kitchen conservatory, it is either one or 'tuther.

It sounds like you have an illegal (against building regulations) hybrid. If the structure was built as a connie, in the true sense, then it will never conform as habitable space without practically rebuilding the entire structure.

So, your only option is to return it as a connie, convert to habitable or continue using it as a hybrid in ignorant bliss.

 

[garyrayne]

your solicitor might pick this up, depending on how good the survey is. You may want owner to pay an idemity insurance within the sales contract so if you do have any comeback it will be covered.

 

[^woody^]

If the work has been done properly, and there are no forseeable problems in use (eg ventilation) then if you want the place, just buy it.

The chances of this being an issue with planning or build regs, are the same as me winning the lottery tonight - and if that happens, I'll buy the house for you

 

[Richard C]

You should accept it as nothing more than a conservatory & make price adjustments accordingly if there is no other “kitchen”; you can always continue to use it as a kitchen but it’s unauthorised building work & because it doesn’t comply with BR’s can never be regularised.

Personally I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole as it stands.

There could also be implications on any future insurance claim that may arise.

 

[duchard]

Thanks for your replies to this. Seems like the issue has raised mixed responses. Should be fine / dont touch it.

I've got my solicitor on the case who hopefully will be asking all the relevant questions and request what paperwork is needed.

cheers.

 

[bernardgreen]

The owner has informed me that technically he should have obtained building regs for the drainage but that it wont be an issue after 2/3 years time..

He has admitted it was contructed without building regulation approval. The time limit MAY apply as regards the local authority taking action BUT if the drainage is not correctly installed there is a potential health risk if it leaks.

Also does the drainage affect your neighbours property ? If the drainage for other houses passes along under the conservatory then you may have serious future problems.



[/list]

 

[duchard]

The conservatory was built and regulated by the builders. This was before A kitchen was installed.

There is no drainage/pipes under the build.

 

[^woody^]

I don't think Ladbrookes would even be able to give odds that Building Control would (i) find out about this (ii) be the slightest bit interested if they did.

They would only be concerned with life-safety issues

Insurers will insure what is there at the time of the policy starting, so I can't see how this can affect the policy.

There is a potential health risk if drains leak regardless of whether it went through building control or not

So the fact remains, if the work has been done properly, then the property can be bought with no worries.

The only issue with this type of situation, is that it becomes a bargaining chip for the buyer ... "Well, you know, its not approved is it, I'm taking a risk here, so if you knock a couple of £000 off, then that would help"

But in reality, there is no risk, and the clued up seller will either say "Do one", or offer to spend £80 on an indemnity policy - which is actually worthless to the buyer

 

[Richard C]

How long has the property been on the market; changes to HIP came in on April 6th which means that all properties must have a FULLY completed HIP available at the time the property is placed on the market. The HIP must now also include a completed Property Information Questionnaire, all searches & relevant information regarding Building Works; the option of an indemnity insurance policy against “missing” or “excluded” information appears to have been removed & is no longer an option. Even if your seller can entice you to buy it, your lender may not advance the cash if & when they find out there are unauthorised, non compliant building works & if he is running on an old HIP, the new tighter regulations may well catch you out when you decide to sell.

It makes not one jot weather or not LABC are concerned about the work, as has been said, there is little chance of them finding out unless you have other work done requiring inspection but there IS a risk to you in selling the property on or, potentially, in the event of an insurance claim the cause of which may be remotely connected with non compliant building works. It’s up to you to decide if it’s worth taking the chance with a big enough price reduction or not; assuming your lender actually gives you the cash!

 

[duchard]

His HIP was completed before the new HIP came into place.
I've done a bit more scanning on other forums on this situation and found conflicting arguments. The main jist I'm getting from all this is this:

a) Since the conservatory build was built soley for use as a conservatory and no building regs were obtained for the drainage then the house theoretically has no kitchen on paper. Which means if I was to sell the house on at ANY future date then I could be in trouble.

b) Building regs are required since the conservatory has been "converted" to a habitable area. (radiator, drainage, electrics) despite the conservatory having external doors attached still and is NOT open plan.

Possible solutions:

a) Apply for retrospective planning on the conservatory (which I hear can take up to 6months) and even then it may be declined. How much would this cost? and could the building regulators enforce the removal of the kitchen?

b) Get an Indemnity insurance on the build. Not sure if this would be enough for me to take the house on as I hear this only insures you if something does crop up, like if the kitchen needs to come out. Then i'm stuck with a house with no kitchen. Would Indemnity insurance also cover anyone buying the property from me at a later date. Not sure if this would apply due to last comment made from Richard C on new HIP regulations.

This is all for my peace of mind as my solicitor has asked the buyer for all the relevant permissions / regulation documents and I guess ultimately I have to act on his advice alone at the end of the day. Thats what I'm paying him for!

 

[Richard C]

a) Since the conservatory build was built soley for use as a conservatory and no building regs were obtained for the drainage then the house theoretically has no kitchen on paper. Which means if I was to sell the house on at ANY future date then I could be in trouble.

The point I was making earlier.

b) Building regs are required since the conservatory has been "converted" to a habitable area. (radiator, drainage, electrics) despite the conservatory having external doors attached still and is NOT open plan.

Yes but see below.

Possible solutions:

Apply for retrospective planning on the conservatory (which I hear can take up to 6months) and even then it may be declined. How much would this cost?

Generally you don’t need PP for a cons. Don’t confuse PP with Building Regulation compliance; you would never get retrospective compliance (normalisation) to use a cons. in this way. It’s not just the drainage/heating/electrical work that’s been done, a cons. is not subject to Building Regulations & none that I’m aware of will ever be capable of meeting BR requirements for thermal efficiency. It would never be cost effective & in all probability it would be cheaper to knock it down & build a proper extension.

and could the building regulators enforce the removal of the kitchen?

Yes I believe so.

b) Get an Indemnity insurance on the build. Not sure if this would be enough for me to take the house on as I hear this only insures you if something does crop up, like if the kitchen needs to come out. Then i'm stuck with a house with no kitchen. Would Indemnity insurance also cover anyone buying the property from me at a later date. Not sure if this would apply due to last comment made from Richard C on new HIP regulations.

What insurance company do you know of that is going to give an indemnity against the cost of enforcement on building works that are know to be unauthorized & non-compliant. As I said before, I don’t think this is an option; by all means try but whatever you do don’t lie!

This is all for my peace of mind as my solicitor has asked the buyer for all the relevant permissions / regulation documents and I guess ultimately I have to act on his advice alone at the end of the day. Thats what I'm paying him for!

Your already aware the relevant documents can’t be supplied be because they don’t exist &, presumably, you’ve advised your solicitor of this; if you haven’t, your being extremely dumb! He will in all probability advise against you proceeding & also has an obligation to advise your lender who, in turn will probably not advance you the money to buy. If he advises otherwise I still wouldn’t touch it unless I got a huge price reduction to remedy the “no legal kitchen“ situation, it’s far too much potential future hassle.

 

[IJWS15]

Ask yourself what would happen if you have a fire or a water leak (not unusual in kitchens) after you buy the house and you have to explain to your insurer that you are claiming for repairs to a part of the building that does not meet building regulations and whats more, you knew it did not meet building regulations when you took out the policy and didn't tell them.

They will walk away.

You should.

BTW if you tell them when taking out the policy it is unlikely they will insure the house at all.

 

[duchard]

Well thanks for all your views on this matter. It has been a learning curve at least. I got a letter from my solicitor yesterday informing me that the seller was not prepared to sort out these matters and advised me to pull out of the purchase. As a solictor he requires a "certificate of title" and without the appropriate paperwork would probably not be able to have the lender release the appropriate funds. This I'm sure will be the sellers problem whoever it is. He stil insists that he does not require building regs for the DIY kitchen he insatalled (fool).So its HIS problem not mine and to be honest I'm relieved that I can now bury this and move on.

I am now looking at building an extension on the back of my house to house a new kitchen. About 6m x 4m. Nothing fancy, three walls, large window, patio doors. No interior wall removal as already have patio doors. Any takers? No any good brickies in norwich?

 

[Richard C]

Well thanks for all your views on this matter. It has been a learning curve at least. I got a letter from my solicitor yesterday informing me that the seller was not prepared to sort out these matters and advised me to pull out of the purchase. As a solictor he requires a "certificate of title" and without the appropriate paperwork would probably not be able to have the lender release the appropriate funds.

Thanks for the feedback, I’m not surprised & it’s just what I expected would (should) happen.

This I'm sure will be the sellers problem whoever it is. He stil insists that he does not require building regs for the DIY kitchen he insatalled (fool).So its HIS problem not mine and to be honest I'm relieved that I can now bury this and move on.

This is now happening much more frequently & will continue to do so in the future as many who thought they had been clever & beaten the “system” will find out when they come to sell up.

I am now looking at building an extension on the back of my house to house a new kitchen. About 6m x 4m. Nothing fancy, three walls, large window, patio doors. No interior wall removal as already have patio doors. Any takers? No any good brickies in norwich?

By strange coincidence I know a very good builder/developer in Mulbarton who may be able to help & has access to all trades (tried & tested), where in Norwich are you located?