Creating a small opening in cellar wall (FOR ACCESS) - How to support the floor above?

[homemove]

Hi everyone.

I'm hoping someone could give me a bit of advice. I want to create a small opening (no wider than a door's width) in the cellar's internal brick wall. The reason for this is because currently there is no access to the suspended floor below and I want to access it so that it's so much easier to do any type of underfloor work, such as piping or ethernet/power cabling. However since we've not had the home decorated too long agoy, the wife is not happy with this idea as it would ruin her new carpets and laminate and tiled flooring.

I feel rather than endless arguments, creating an opening is the only method going forward as it gives us access for the future and it is much easier for me to just jump in and carry out any work quickly.

Please can you have a look at the diagram below and tell me whether this Lintel/Opening location is okay to do or would it cause any problems? Since the opening is directly below where the ground and 1st floor room doors are, there's not a huge amount of wall to support. Hope it makes sense and thanks in advance for any advice you give.

 

[noseall]

Hi everyone.

I'm hoping someone could give me a bit of advice. I want to create a small opening (no wider than a door's width) in the cellar's internal brick wall. The reason for this is because currently there is no access to the suspended floor below and I want to access it so that it's so much easier to do any type of underfloor work, such as piping or ethernet/power cabling. However since we've not had the home decorated too long agoy, the wife is not happy with this idea as it would ruin her new carpets and laminate and tiled flooring.

I feel rather than endless arguments, creating an opening is the only method going forward as it gives us access for the future and it is much easier for me to just jump in and carry out any work quickly.

Please can you have a look at the diagram below and tell me whether this Lintel/Opening location is okay to do or would it cause any problems? Since the opening is directly below where the ground and 1st floor room doors are, there's not a huge amount of wall to support. Hope it makes sense and thanks in advance for any advice you give.

View attachment 304217

Box Catnic lintel (no lip).

 

[SFK]

I would make lintel narrower so only having to support one joist not three. Only because easier to only disturb one and easier support one joist as you take bricks out.

Use a suitably thick length of wood wedged under joist to floor to act as an acrow support.

 

[homemove]

I would make lintel narrower so only having to support one joist not three. Only because easier to only disturb one and easier support one joist as you take bricks out.

Use a suitably thick length of wood wedged under joist to floor to act as an acrow support.

Thanks for your help SFK. When you say one lintel to support only one joist, do you mean like this?

Could you please show me a pic as what you mean by thick length of wood wedged under joist to floor to act as an acrow support?

Also am I okay to use a concrete lintel or would I need to use a wood lintel?

Finally, I've got 2 acrow props like shown below. How would you say I should set them up?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[SFK]

When you say one lintel to support only one joist, do you mean like this?

Yes - if that makes enough room for you it simplifies your job.

've got 2 acrow props like shown below. How would you say I should set them up?

As you have acrow props ignore my length of wood suggestion (it was to be used as a prrp from joist to ground if you did not have an acrow prop).

I would put one acrow prop under the middle joist, close-ish to the wall (but far enough away to give you space) and hit it with hamer a couple of times to expand it under tension so it lifts joist just slightly.

Also am I okay to use a concrete lintel or would I need to use a wood lintel?

I would not use wood.
I would use a concrete lintel as here:

Search lintel | Wickes.co.uk

Search results for lintel on Wickes.co.uk

www.wickes.co.uk

But I note that Noseall suggested a "Box Catnic lintel (no lip)." which might be better but I have no knowlage of as I am a DIYer.

SFK

 

[homemove]

Thanks very much.

I have to say that my diagram was not very accurate, for which I can only apologise. So after having properly looked at the joists in the cellar, I've realised that due to them being only approx 14-16 inches apart, I'd need to have the lintel spread over at least 3 joists for enough space for the opening. There's also something else to add - Two of the joists are not running the full length, therefore their corner's are sat on that wall.

Does this complicate things? If so, then I do have a 2nd location for an opening. Again the 2nd location also has door's above it.

 

[SFK]

Three joists not an issue - concrete lintel will take that happily.
But might need a thrid acrow prop (or my suggestion of a length of wood from floor to underneth joist to take load).

Their being two joists meeting each other does make it more complex.
Need to support the back joist in some manner - rach through and support it off soil floor in other room using a car jack or pile of bricks.
And/Or sister two joists together with a meter long length of wood.

SFK

 

[homemove]

Three joists not an issue - concrete lintel will take that happily.
But might need a thrid acrow prop (or my suggestion of a length of wood from floor to underneth joist to take load).

Their being two joists meeting each other does make it more complex.
Need to support the back joist in some manner - rach through and support it off soil floor in other room using a car jack or pile of bricks.
And/Or sister two joists together with a meter long length of wood.

SFK

I'm afraid I've only got two acrow props, so it might have to be a makeshift piece of wood and car jack to support the weight.

Also I'm unable to access the other side of the wall as behind the wall is the suspended floor half-full of soil and it's only accessible by lifting floorboards, which as you know wife wouldn't be happy with.

Since I can see the end face l of the two corner joists, would temporarily connecting a piece wood to them be sufficient?

I was also thinking whether using an heavy duty L-Bracket and screwing the end of the joists to the floorboards would help give them temporary support?

 

[homemove]

Sorry, I hope you don't mind me bumping this thread as I've not had any reply as yet.

 

[cdbe]

Prop the 3 joists with two acrows and a length of timber, carefully remove 4 bricks a couple of courses below the wall plate and fit a 750mm concrete lintel.

Get your head around this idea then post a few pictures, not close ups, of the wall, joists etc and people will be able to advise on the detail.

This is the sort of thing you should be aiming for:

 

[homemove]

Prop the 3 joists with two acrows and a length of timber, carefully remove 4 bricks a couple of courses below the wall plate and fit a 750mm concrete lintel.

Get your head around this idea then post a few pictures, not close ups, of the wall, joists etc and people will be able to advise on the detail.

This is the sort of thing you should be aiming for:

Hi cdbe, Thanks so much for going the extra mile and providing a clear drawing. Now that makes sense to me. Would mind having a look at the edited drawing below and help me with a couple of questions?

1. When placing the lintel below the joists, is anything (such as mortar or a piece of wood required to rest between the 3 joists and above the bricks (SHOWN IN RED) ? If yes, what do you recommend?

2. Due to the low height of the cellar, I would need to remove the bricks below the linel. So rather than have a several lines of bricks running below the lintel, am I okay to remove them (SHOWN IN BLUE) ?

Thanks so much again!

 

[cdbe]

Yes, thinking about it you're unlikely to have a wall plate so you could fit the lintel directly under the joists, they're normally fairly flat on top. If you need to pack anywhere, use some thin pieces of plastic or metal etc.

If you have incoming joists from the other room that you can't access to prop, which I think is what you were saying in your earlier post, they'll probably stay where the are till you get your lintel in as long as no-one starts jumping about upstairs but if you can pick them up with something it won't hurt.

 

[homemove]

Yes, thinking about it you're unlikely to have a wall plate so you could fit the lintel directly under the joists, they're normally fairly flat on top. If you need to pack anywhere, use some thin pieces of plastic or metal etc.

If you have incoming joists from the other room that you can't access to prop, which I think is what you were saying in your earlier post, they'll probably stay where the are till you get your lintel in as long as no-one starts jumping about upstairs but if you can pick them up with something it won't hurt.

That's very helpful, thank you. Yes one of joists is cornering off and I can see the face of the other two joists. Due to other responsibilities, I'm not going to start this work yet. And yes, I've taken on board what you've said with regarding to someone jumping, so my plan is to send the family out for the day to avoid any disturbance. One idea I have to stop the joists without acrow support from drooping is to temporarily use a couple of heavy duty metal twin-slot shelving bars (I have quite a few of these) and screw the loose joists to the fixed joists across the length. Would this idea work?

 

[cdbe]

Sounds like a plan.

 

[homemove]

Sounds like a plan.

Cheers for that cdbe. As a quick test, I've placed the props in the cellar and depending on where you set them and place the pin in the hole, they either are too short or too long for the height, i.e they are don't reach the height or they miss the joists because they are too high because the hole for pin is too far away. Hope that makes sense??