cutting "rail sleepers"- alligator saw or reciprocating saw?

[opps]

I've been using Japanese saws for a good few years now, and one of the advantages over "normal" hand saws is that pulling is easier than pushing - and you can use two hands and get extra help from your upper body. Another advantage is that getting a straight cut is guaranteed, as long as you start off correctly.

I have in the past, cut through sleepers and other thick timber with relative ease using a Ryoba pattern saw, and that's ease of cut and not being tiring either. An fast too, so you won't need to take three weeks.

The only thing to be aware of, and few of the online "experts" tell you, is that the saw teeth size is matched to the saw length. So for first fix, or rough sawing, you'll need at least a 300mm blade to get suitably aggressive teeth.

I would suggest that such a saw would be more useful for future use than paying out for one of the power saws mentioned and then looking for uses for it.

And for clarity, I'm referring to proper Japanese saws, not western "pull saws" or £9.99 specials from Lidl and made in China.

I do have a Japanese cross cut blade purchased from Axminster Power Tools years ago.

Z-Saw Japanese Hassunme Crosscut Saw & Rip Saw Blade - PACKAGE DEAL

Package deal comprises Z-Saw Japanese Hassunme Crosscut Saw and the Z-Saw Rip Saw Blade. Z-Saw Japanese Hassunme Crosscut Saw The tooth form of this crosscut saw leaves the most incredible finish on end grain, almost like a planed surface. Featuring a...

www.axminstertools.com

I might give it a try and see how it goes.

I too am particularly fond of Japanese saws.

I once made the mistake of purchasing a Silverline pull saw-I was on site and it was the only pull store in the local hardware store. I had to cut through some tongues in a hardwood floor. The teeth started snapping off after about 5 mins.

 

[^woody^]

I do have a Japanese cross cut blade purchased from Axminster Power Tools years ago.

Z-Saw Japanese Hassunme Crosscut Saw & Rip Saw Blade - PACKAGE DEAL

Package deal comprises Z-Saw Japanese Hassunme Crosscut Saw and the Z-Saw Rip Saw Blade. Z-Saw Japanese Hassunme Crosscut Saw The tooth form of this crosscut saw leaves the most incredible finish on end grain, almost like a planed surface. Featuring a...

www.axminstertools.com

I might give it a try and see how it goes.

I too am particularly fond of Japanese saws.

I once made the mistake of purchasing a Silverline pull saw-I was on site and it was the only pull store in the local hardware store. I had to cut through some tongues in a hardwood floor. The teeth started snapping off after about 5 mins.

I think that saw set would be for doing a tenon joint on the sleeper and making a coffee table of it.
The teeth are too fine.

You'll need at least a Ryoba 300mm which has large teeth at 7 TPI, or for a bigger size it will be an Anahiki type which is specifically for rough timber.

But the Ryoba may be more versatile is you are not planning to make a business of sleeper cutting.

 

[opps]

I think that saw set would be for doing a tenon joint on the sleeper and making a coffee table of it.
The teeth are too fine.

You'll need at least a Ryoba 300mm which has large teeth at 7 TPI, or for a bigger size it will be an Anahiki type which is specifically for rough timber.

View attachment 303147

But the Ryoba may be more versatile is you are not planning to make a business of sleeper cutting.

Thanks, will do some more research.

 

[blup]

I bought a japanese pull saw for the USP that it cut on the pull, but found that what gets pulled has to be pushed back which flexes the blade. So I am back to using a nice sharp 22" hand, Bahco do a thicker bladed one for wet wood which I have found works well on thick treated timber.

Blup

 

[opps]

I bought a japanese pull saw for the USP that it cut on the pull, but found that what gets pulled has to be pushed back which flexes the blade. So I am back to using a nice sharp 22" hand, Bahco do a thicker bladed one for wet wood which I have found works well on thick treated timber.

Blup

In my (limited) experience, on dry timber, I can get a better quality of cut with a Japanese than I can with a push saw. That however may be down to the fact that the cabinet maker that I worked for when I was 20 didn't use push saws. I do use push saws but generally for jobs where the quality of finish is less important or where I am less concerned about damage to the blade.

I guess it comes down to what you are used to.

I do have a Bahco rough cut saw, perhaps I will try each of the saws that I have and see what happens.

Tnx

 

[blup]

Maybe I had a crap version from the sheds, ultra sharp teeth make a difference.

Blup

 

[^woody^]

Proper Jap saws have thinner blades, but they are also nickel-coated and this makes them smoother and more slippery, so less friction. Also the teeth set, size and grind is different to western patterns so this adds to less force required too.

A pull saw without these specific features is just pulling not pushing and does not have any advantage.

You need to learn learn not to push down on the back-stroke, and it takes a while to master as you tend to try and force the saw forward if you are used to western saws.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I measured the sleepers today.

They are 160mm by 250mm.

Recip saw - very inaccurate

Aligator saw - blades cost a fortune (c.£50 to £60 a set) and they aren't long lived

160mm means two cuts, one from either side, using a 9in/230mm saw which should give about an 85mm depth of cut. Want to borrow my Hilti?

I guess that the alligator will be the safest option...

A circular saw is a lot safer IMHO. Alligator saws are fairly fast and will work in situations where a circular saw can't, e.g the aforementioned beams. I used to have a DW, but sold it to the firm at the end of that job

And, Oi! Not so much of the old codger carp...

 

[opps]

And, Oi! Not so much of the old codger carp...

I am glad that you are here to b'lox me. x

I am hoping that I can get away with only cutting one sleeper. They only stand 2 tall. I can now see that they are creosote treated. I am gonna try a saw with few teeth PI. If that doesn't work, I will be back here asking for further advice.

If a hand saw for a tenner does the one cut and I have to bin it, then yeah, it makes more sense that buying an aligator saw that may become clogged on the first use.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

If a hand saw for a tenner does the one cut and I have to bin it, then yeah, it makes more sense that buying an aligator saw that may become clogged on the first use.

For a one off with maybe a bit more life try a Bahco Baracuda 244+ (currently about £11 at Toolstation gor the 22in version) and rub the nub of an old candle on the sides of the blade to get a bit more "glide"

As to Japanese saws, I'd say good luck getting one which will cut medium to larger sizes at any speed. I have a few (not for site work, though), and whilst you can get quite reasonably priced bench joinery/cabinetmaking scale saws readily, just like with Western saws half decent fast cutting saws for either ripping or crosscut work seem to be pretty expensive. The biggest/coursest I have is about 300mm long and 9tpi and against a traditional western 26in 5tpi crosscut it is quite slow

 

[lostinthelight]

Some pull saws don't have any mechanical set at all , set is achieved by the blade being wedge shape so the edge with the teeth is much wider than back

 

[Mike13]

I had a few very old BR sleepers in the garden when I moved into the house, Tar and Creosote treated. when they eventually failed I just broke them up and took the pieces to the tip. Soil, tar and wood, it is not a combination that will cut easily with anything.