Drayton Wiser 3 Zone System Installation

[veeyee]

Hello, I am trying to replace a Danfoss system with the Drayton Wiser 3 zone setup.

The house currently has a gas boiler controlled by Danfoss TP9000MA which controls the heating downstairs and hot water. This box has an external temperature sensor on the wall which is wired back to the unit. Upstairs there is another Danfoss unit which is battery powered by contains two signal wires which link back to the wiring centre to control the upstairs heating circuit.

I have traced as much wiring as I can including doing continuity tests from the wiring centre back down to the wiring by the boiler. Diagram:

Existing backplate:

Existing wiring diagram for backplate:

Based on that, I have disconnected 5 and 6 from the unit to remove the downstairs external temperature sensor.

Upstairs this is the back of the thermostat:

I have traced back and continuity tested the brown and black wires and have removed them from the wiring centre. Brown was joined to the right side of 1 in the wiring center. Black was joined to the left side of 7. In its place I have inserted a brown link cable from the right side of 1 into the left side of 7 to create a permanent loop - effectively deleting the thermostat.

Back downstairs at the faceplate I have swapped it over to the new one but with the following changes:

4 on the old faceplate was heating on, this has been moved to heating 3 on the new plate (heating channel 3)
3 on the old faceplate was hot water on, this has been moved to 2 on the new plate (hot water)
The live which went back to 1 on the wiring centre has been moved into 1 on the new plate (heating channel 1)
The last two lives (boiler flex plus one solid live) have been placed in L
The blue neutral wires have been placed in N

The problem is, the downstairs loop is no longer working. Wiser will control the upstairs loop fine, but downstairs doesn't seem to work.

Wiring diagram from the Wiser kit:

Hot water tank and wiring centre:

I think this is possibly down to the wiring centre being non-standard and not matching the requirements of the Wiser setup, but unsure. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

 

[stem]

What you need to achieve is the two brown wires from the CH motorised valves connecting to the CH 'on' terminals of the wiser [1&3] And the brown wire from the HW motorised valve eventually valve going to HW 'on' of the Wiser [2] via the cylinder thermostat.

I have modified your diagram to show how I would have installed the Wiser 3 channel.

I don't know from your diagram which heating zone is upstairs and which is downstairs, so here Wiser 1 will control Heating Zone Valve 2, and Wiser 3 will control Heating Zone 1. If you want it the other way around, simply transpose the wires in Wiser terminals 1 & 3

 

[veeyee]

What you need to achieve is the two brown wires from the CH motorised valves connecting to the CH 'on' terminals of the wiser [1&3] And the brown wire from the HW motorised valve eventually valve going to HW 'on' of the Wiser [2] via the cylinder thermostat.

View attachment 317187

I have modified your diagram to show how I would have installed the Wiser 3 channel.

View attachment 317188

I don't know from your diagram which heating zone is upstairs and which is downstairs, so here Wiser 1 will control Heating Zone Valve 2, and Wiser 3 will control Heating Zone 1. If you want it the other way around, simply transpose the wires in Wiser terminals 1 & 3

Thanks for coming back to me @stem

Zone 1 = Downstairs
Zone 2 = Upstairs

So based on my understanding of your message, wiring centre 7 needs a live back to one of the CH ports on the wiser.

I don't think there is a way for me to link 7 into CH1 because no spare lives exist.

If l move the LIVE which is currently in L on the old system and on the other end currently is screwed into 1 in the wiring centre - this will be inserted into 7 on the wiring centre.

But that will break the circuit for connector 2 in the wiring centre, as that previously had a constant live which was given through the link wire from 1 to 2?

I could do a link from 2 to 7, but then because that live is now controlled by the Wiser it would mean the live was only active when CH2 was active so CH1 wouldn't work independently? Unless another 2nd link was added from 11 to 7 as well, so then depending on which CH was active there would always be live for 2 on the wiring centre? But then both zones would come on at the same time I think.

Diagram below to show the problem with 1 and 2 in the wiring centre after the proposed change.

Thanks!

 

[stem]

Zone 1 = Downstairs
Zone 2 = Upstairs

Ah OK, I guessed them the wrong way around, but you know what to do to fix it.

So based on my understanding of your message, wiring centre 7 needs a live back to one of the CH ports on the wiser.

Correct. One of the wiser CH ports to terminal 7, then on to the Brown wire of the appropriate motorised valve.

I don't think there is a way for me to link 7 into CH1 because no spare lives exist.

Then you will need to install one.

If l move the LIVE which is currently in L on the old system and on the other end currently is screwed into 1 in the wiring centre - this will be inserted into 7 on the wiring centre.

But that will break the circuit for connector 2 in the wiring centre, as that previously had a constant live which was given through the link wire from 1 to 2?

It would indeed break the link. The live on 2 needs to be permanent. It's the supply to the microswitches inside the motorised valves that start the boiler when any of the 3 motorised valves is open.

I could do a link from 2 to 7,

If you did then heating zone 2 would be permanently on

Unless another 2nd link was added from 11 to 7 as well, so then depending on which CH was active there would always be live for 2 on the wiring centre? But then both zones would come on at the same time I think.

Linking 11 and 7 would mean that both zones came on together. I'm assuming your property is fairly new so it has been built with two heating zones as it is now a requirement of the building regulations. Converting it back to one zone would be in contravention of them. Although no one will come and inspect of course, but you may find that should you sell the property and the survey highlights it, you may have to reinstate it at your cost.

There's only one way to do this properly. Wiser terminals 1, 2 and 3 need to be connected to the lives of the 3 motorised valves. There's no short cut.

 

[veeyee]

Ah OK, I guessed them the wrong way around, but you know what to do to fix it.


Correct. One of the wiser CH ports to terminal 7, then on to the Brown wire of the appropriate motorised valve.


Then you will need to install one.


It would indeed break the link. The live on 2 needs to be permanent. It's the supply to the microswitches inside the motorised valves that start the boiler when any of the 3 motorised valves is open.


If you did then heating zone 2 would be permanently on


Linking 11 and 7 would mean that both zones came on together. I'm assuming your property is fairly new so it has been built with two heating zones as it is now a requirement of the building regulations. Converting it back to one zone would be in contravention of them. Although no one will come and inspect of course, but you may find that should you sell the property and the survey highlights it, you may have to reinstate it at your cost.

There's only one way to do this properly. Wiser terminals 1, 2 and 3 need to be connected to the lives of the 3 motorised valves. There's no short cut.

Thanks @stem, really appreciate the sharing of knowledge.

I agree with you, best (and probably only!) solution is to run a new cable from the wiring centre back down to the boiler area so we can add that new live

 

[RandomGrinch]

There's no short cut.

Unless, the OP was also willing to invest in the Wiser TRV's...

 

[Johnmdc]

Why not just move the hub to where the wiring centre is and wire it directly to it.
Where the old clock was just join the neutrals together in a connector, do the same with the lives in a separate connector, make the other 4 wires safe in individual connectors and fit a blank plate over them.
Simples.

 

[MarlieChiller]

Why not just move the hub to where the wiring centre is and wire it directly to it.
Where the old clock was just join the neutrals together in a connector, do the same with the lives in a separate connector, make the other 4 wires safe in individual connectors and fit a blank plate over them.
Simples.

How would you safely connect the hub to the wiring centre here without having exposed wiring?

 

[snb1]

With cable

 

[RandomGrinch]

6 core flex, probably...

Or a 3 core + a 4 core

 

[BlueLoo]

Hello, I am trying to replace a Danfoss system with the Drayton Wiser 3 zone setup.

The house currently has a gas boiler controlled by Danfoss TP9000MA which controls the heating downstairs and hot water. This box has an external temperature sensor on the wall which is wired back to the unit. Upstairs there is another Danfoss unit which is battery powered by contains two signal wires which link back to the wiring centre to control the upstairs heating circuit.

I have traced as much wiring as I can including doing continuity tests from the wiring centre back down to the wiring by the boiler. Diagram:

View attachment 317092

Existing backplate:

View attachment 317093

Existing wiring diagram for backplate:

View attachment 317094

Based on that, I have disconnected 5 and 6 from the unit to remove the downstairs external temperature sensor.

Upstairs this is the back of the thermostat:

View attachment 317096

I have traced back and continuity tested the brown and black wires and have removed them from the wiring centre. Brown was joined to the right side of 1 in the wiring center. Black was joined to the left side of 7. In its place I have inserted a brown link cable from the right side of 1 into the left side of 7 to create a permanent loop - effectively deleting the thermostat.

Back downstairs at the faceplate I have swapped it over to the new one but with the following changes:

4 on the old faceplate was heating on, this has been moved to heating 3 on the new plate (heating channel 3)
3 on the old faceplate was hot water on, this has been moved to 2 on the new plate (hot water)
The live which went back to 1 on the wiring centre has been moved into 1 on the new plate (heating channel 1)
The last two lives (boiler flex plus one solid live) have been placed in L
The blue neutral wires have been placed in N

The problem is, the downstairs loop is no longer working. Wiser will control the upstairs loop fine, but downstairs doesn't seem to work.

Wiring diagram from the Wiser kit:

View attachment 317100

Hot water tank and wiring centre:
View attachment 317101

I think this is possibly down to the wiring centre being non-standard and not matching the requirements of the Wiser setup, but unsure. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Interesting piping.
Gray? What is that?
And what's with the water inlet on the p1ss?

Anyway.

For the zone control on the old thermostats, you can rip out all the wiring to them. The wiser system doesn't need them. You simply assign a thermostat to a zone if you need too.

So, the wiring centre can be rejigged so that the zone terminals on the controller are in direct connection with the zone valve actuator.

You can, should you want to, remove all but the hw zone valves altogether if you put the electronic tvs on the rads.

 

[veeyee]

Why not just move the hub to where the wiring centre is and wire it directly to it.
Where the old clock was just join the neutrals together in a connector, do the same with the lives in a separate connector, make the other 4 wires safe in individual connectors and fit a blank plate over them.
Simples.

Got a sparky round who specialised in heating systems in the end and this is exactly what he did. Jobs a good'un! Thank you for the advice

 

[veeyee]

Interesting piping.
Gray? What is that?
And what's with the water inlet on the p1ss?

Anyway.

For the zone control on the old thermostats, you can rip out all the wiring to them. The wiser system doesn't need them. You simply assign a thermostat to a zone if you need too.

So, the wiring centre can be rejigged so that the zone terminals on the controller are in direct connection with the zone valve actuator.

You can, should you want to, remove all but the hw zone valves altogether if you put the electronic tvs on the rads.

Questionable work on the water inlet that's for sure! Looks like somebody has redone it so it was probably leaking at one stage!

 

[veeyee]

All wired in now, thanks for all the replies

Sparky came and did what @Johnmdc recommended, system has been in a few weeks now and working really well.

Bagged Wiser TRVs for about £30 a piece on Black Friday too which was a good deal!

 

[BlueLoo]

All wired in now, thanks for all the replies

Sparky came and did what @Johnmdc recommended, system has been in a few weeks now and working really well.

Bagged Wiser TRVs for about £30 a piece on Black Friday too which was a good deal!

That's a bargain.
I love 'em.