E10 Fuel with Lead Replacement

[cwhaley]

I use an old car (1964 Singer Gazelle) to get about and occasionally for work -- usually just me as our young son can't travel safely in it.

I've been using E5 along with doses of lead replacement / fuel stabiliser, however this is getting very expensive to fill especially as my economy is probably only around 22-25 mpg. I think I can improve this through adjusting the timing and properly setting up my Weber 34ICH carb, but I still wonder if I can run E10 with the additive.

The fuel tank - although okay - needs a restoration, so I'm not concerned with that for this matter. The fuel line to the mechanical pump is metal, then after that and to the carb it is modern rubber hose. There is an in-line filter there.

 

[Mottie]

Would it be worth your while whipping the head off and having hardened seats fitted?

 

[cwhaley]

Would it be worth your while whipping the head off and having hardened seats fitted?

I should have said, but it had them put in sometime after the car was brought out of a barn in 1994. I only found that out by chance speaking to an old owner of the car. I hadn't planned to do it though as the car doesn't do the mileage to warrant the work.

 

[Mottie]

If you have hardened valve seats, you don’t need lead replacement additive.

 

[cwhaley]

If you have hardened valve seats, you don’t need lead replacement additive.

True but the stabiliser helps protect against the breakdown of E10 fuel, which is what I'm more interested in. The lead substitute just happens to come with it. I'm asking as although the car is used, there may be fuel in the tank which has been in there a month or more since the last top up.

 

[Mottie]

Fuel a month old is not a problem!

 

[cwhaley]

Lot of misinformation out there so I had been led to believe E10 fuel has a considerably shorter life when stored outside in car tanks.

Need to do a bit more reading. Assume given the material of the pipes delivering the fuel and the new carb, none of that will be affected.

 

[Avocet]

I have a similar dilemma on a 1980s car, (but at least it has a plastic tank). On long runs, I tend to fill with E10 (it doesn't need lead or high octane). If the fuel isn't going t be in the tank for more than about a month, I don't bother. When laying it up for the winter, I tend to fill with E5.

I've never used an additive or stabiliser. I might, if I had a steel tank and a very valuable car, though. ANY steel in the fuel system (say, perhaps, the pin for the float in the carb?), would be vulnerable to the moisture inherent in using fuel containing ethanol. My lawnmower has a steel float chamber bowl and that will develop rust if laid up with E10 for the winter,

Also, fuel lines made before about 2003, will probably break down with fuels containing ethanol. I tend to use ISO 7840+A1, because it's more fire retardant as well as being OK for E10. It's normally used in marine applications. SAE J30 R9 is the other common E10 resistant one, but beware eBay listings. The Chinese will write whatever you want on the side of a piece of pipe! Worth going for a recognised brand like Gates or Cohline or Continental, etc.

 

[cwhaley]

I have a similar dilemma on a 1980s car, (but at least it has a plastic tank). On long runs, I tend to fill with E10 (it doesn't need lead or high octane). If the fuel isn't going t be in the tank for more than about a month, I don't bother. When laying it up for the winter, I tend to fill with E5.

I've never used an additive or stabiliser. I might, if I had a steel tank and a very valuable car, though. ANY steel in the fuel system (say, perhaps, the pin for the float in the carb?), would be vulnerable to the moisture inherent in using fuel containing ethanol. My lawnmower has a steel float chamber bowl and that will develop rust if laid up with E10 for the winter,

Also, fuel lines made before about 2003, will probably break down with fuels containing ethanol. I tend to use ISO 7840+A1, because it's more fire retardant as well as being OK for E10. It's normally used in marine applications. SAE J30 R9 is the other common E10 resistant one, but beware eBay listings. The Chinese will write whatever you want on the side of a piece of pipe! Worth going for a recognised brand like Gates or Cohline or Continental, etc.

Interesting stuff! Yes fuel sat in the tank for more than a month was on my mind, hence the post.

There is a steel fuel line from the tank to the pump, thereafter it is hose to the modern carb which I think uses a plastic float (need to check that). As it happens it was Gates' hoses I used. I recently changed the timing belt on my 406 and used a belt kit from Gates', I know the name is good.

Not long after posting this, I decided that next year (maybe even over this Winter actually) that I am going to remove and strip the tank, maybe replace all the steel pipe with rubber and overhaul the fuel pump. It's one of those AC Delco ones so replacement diaphragms etc. are around.

By the way, have to ask -- what's the car?

 

[Avocet]

Interesting stuff! Yes fuel sat in the tank for more than a month was on my mind, hence the post.

There is a steel fuel line from the tank to the pump, thereafter it is hose to the modern carb which I think uses a plastic float (need to check that). As it happens it was Gates' hoses I used. I recently changed the timing belt on my 406 and used a belt kit from Gates', I know the name is good.

Not long after posting this, I decided that next year (maybe even over this Winter actually) that I am going to remove and strip the tank, maybe replace all the steel pipe with rubber and overhaul the fuel pump. It's one of those AC Delco ones so replacement diaphragms etc. are around.

By the way, have to ask -- what's the car?

Have a look on the hose, to see if there are any standards written on it. As you say, Gates are a reputable brand, but of course, their older hoses won't be E10 compatible either. Your steel line will definitely rust internally, with E10, (less so with E5, but to be honest, any ethanol will do it, so it's just a question of how fast). The float might well be plastic, but it's tiny little things like the pin it pivots on, or maybe some jet holders, etc, that will suffer. You might be lucky, they might all be brass.

Mine's an old Alfa 164.