EICR help please.

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diamondplus

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Hi all,

We're currently in the advanced stages of buying a 4 bedroom detached house in the midlands (built approx 1980) for us to live in (i.e. not to rent) and have had an EICR carried out. The result came back "UNSATISFACTORY" with the following concerns:
  • 5.6 Condition of enclosure(s) in terms of fire rating etc (421.1.6; 421.1.201; 526.5) C3
  • 5.14 Confirmation of indication that SPD is functional (651.4) C3
  • 5.15 RCD(s) provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.204; 411.5.2; 531.2) C1
  • 5.16 RCD(s) provided for additional protection, where required - includes RCBOs (411.3.3; 415.1) C1
  • 5.17 Presence of RCD 6 monthly test notice at or near equipment, where required (514.12.2) C1
  • 5.18 Presence of diagrams, charts or schedules at or near equipment, where required (514.9.1) C1
  • 7.7 Adequacy of protective devices: type and rated current for fault protection (411.3) - HI End to end readings on lives on socket circuits C2
  • 7.12b *for the supply of mobile equipment not exceeding 32 A rating for use outdoors (411.3.3) C2
  • 7.12c *for cables concealed in walls at a depth of less than 50 mm (522.6.202, .203) C2
  • 7.12e * Final Circuits supplying luminaires within domestic (household) premises (411.3.4) C2
  • 9.7b Installed to minimise build-up of heat by use of “fire rated” fittings, insulation displacement box or similar (421.1.2) C1

As you can see, there's a few C1s (a.k.a "Danger Present. Risk of injury. Immediate action required."). Any advice would be appreciated as I'm not an electrician!
  • Is the house an immediate death trap?
  • Should we get the existing owner (who still lives there) to fix the items?
  • Or should we proceed with the sale and fix the issues ourselves? Perhaps haggle on the house price?
The electrician quoted repairs at approx £1,500 (which includes VAT). The repairs break down to:
  • New 18th edition consumer unit (the old unit is 60947-3 if that helps?) -- approx £600
  • 16 x fire rated spotlights (as in downlights?) -- approx £700.
  • Surge protection unit -- approx £110
  • New meter Tails -- approx £60

Are all these items needed if we don't want to fix the C3 issues? Is it worthwhile biting the bullet and getting the C3s done at the same time anyway?


Thanks for reading.
 
  • 5.6 Condition of enclosure(s) in terms of fire rating etc (421.1.6; 421.1.201; 526.5) C3 Ok.
  • 5.14 Confirmation of indication that SPD is functional (651.4) C3 Ok. Do you have an SPD? If you do your CU must be very new.
  • 5.15 RCD(s) [not?] provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.204; 411.5.2; 531.2) C1 There is no 411.4.204. 411.5.2 relates to TT systems (earth electrode) which means you must have RCDs on all circuits for fault protection. Do you have a TT system?
  • 5.16 RCD(s) [not?] provided for additional protection, where required - includes RCBOs (411.3.3;415.1) C1 Same as above.
  • 5.17 Presence of RCD 6 monthly test notice at or near equipment, where required (514.12.2) C1 Rubbish.
  • 5.18 Presence of diagrams, charts or schedules at or near equipment, where required (514.9.1) C1 Rubbish.
  • 7.7 Adequacy of protective devices: type and rated current for fault protection (411.3) - HI End to end readings on lives on socket circuits C2 Might be correct, can be rectified.
  • 7.12b *for the supply of mobile equipment not exceeding 32 A rating for use outdoors (411.3.3) C2 Might be correct, can be rectified. Same as 5.16.
  • 7.12c *for cables concealed in walls at a depth of less than 50 mm (522.6.202, .203) C2 C3 How does he know? Also related to the RCD matter.
  • 7.12e * Final Circuits supplying luminaires within domestic (household) premises (411.3.4) C2 C3 Also related to the RCD matter.
  • 9.7b Installed to minimise build-up of heat by use of “fire rated” fittings, insulation displacement box or similar (421.1.2) C1 Fire-rated not required in single premises.
It would appear that something is wrong relating to RCDs so a new consumer unit might be required.
It depends on the Earthing method.

I don't suppose you know the Earthing method at the premises.
What is on the certificate - TT, TN-S or TN-C-S.

A picture of the certificate would be helpful - with names not shown.

Edited 411.4.204
 
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You will not be able to get the present owner to do anything other than possibly adjust the selling price, but if not it depends how much you want the property.
 
EFLImpudence said:
  • 5.6 Condition of enclosure(s) in terms of fire rating etc (421.1.6; 421.1.201; 526.5) C3 Ok.
  • 5.14 Confirmation of indication that SPD is functional (651.4) C3 Ok. Do you have an SPD? If you do your CU must be very new.
  • 5.15 RCD(s) [not?] provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.204; 411.5.2; 531.2) C1 There is no 411.2.204. 411.5.2 relates to TT systems (earth electrode) which means you must have RCDs on all circuits for fault protection. Do you have a TT system?
  • 5.16 RCD(s) [not?] provided for additional protection, where required - includes RCBOs (411.3.3;415.1) C1 Same as above.
  • 5.17 Presence of RCD 6 monthly test notice at or near equipment, where required (514.12.2) C1 Rubbish.
  • 5.18 Presence of diagrams, charts or schedules at or near equipment, where required (514.9.1) C1 Rubbish.
  • 7.7 Adequacy of protective devices: type and rated current for fault protection (411.3) - HI End to end readings on lives on socket circuits C2 Might be correct, can be rectified.
  • 7.12b *for the supply of mobile equipment not exceeding 32 A rating for use outdoors (411.3.3) C2 Might be correct, can be rectified. Same as 5.16.
  • 7.12c *for cables concealed in walls at a depth of less than 50 mm (522.6.202, .203) C2 C3 How does he know? Also related to the RCD matter.
  • 7.12e * Final Circuits supplying luminaires within domestic (household) premises (411.3.4) C2 C3 Also related to the RCD matter.
  • 9.7b Installed to minimise build-up of heat by use of “fire rated” fittings, insulation displacement box or similar (421.1.2) C1 Fire-rated not required in single premises.
It would appear that something is wrong relating to RCDs so a new consumer unit might be required.
It depends on the Earthing method.

I don't suppose you know the Earthing method at the premises.
What is on the certificate - TT, TN-S or TN-C-S.

A picture of the certificate would be helpful - with names not shown.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the response.

I'm guessing there's not an SPD (Surge Protective Device) at the moment as in the quote letter he recommended having one fitted (though not essential for passing the report).

The EICR says earthing method is: TN-C-S.

I'm not 100% sure the best way of getting you a redacted scan of the EICR but I could still do so if you think it's still helpful (unless there's any other specific questions you want me to answer?).

To answer your other post, we're keen to buy the property and (reluctantly!) would be prepared to pay the repair costs ourselves upon purchase. I guess I want assurances that the property is still safe to buy and live in. I'm guessing so, as the current owner hasn't had to flee the house (as far as we know!).
 
Odd to say not having a 6 month label a C1!

Try photographing the test results with a camera outside if overcast and post that.
 
diamondplus said:
The EICR says earthing method is: TN-C-S.
Click to expand...
In that case it is possible that none of the things mentioned is relevant.

If there are no RCDs then it is C3 and how can a missing sticker about them be necessary - let alone C1.

The installation is just old and nothing might need doing - although you might like to have a new CU just as you might like to have a new car.


Perhaps you need another EICR - an Electrical Inspector Conman Report.

Few 'electricians' are competent to carry out EICRs.
 
Hi all, as requested, attached are redacted scans of the EICR.

EICR_1.jpg
EICR_2.jpg
EICR_3.jpg
EICR_4.jpg
EICR_5.jpg
EICR_6.jpg
EICR_7.jpg
EICR_8.jpg
EICR_10.jpg
 
Even 7.7 which might be the only thing to actually worry about is not verified by the test results which are fine.

upload_2021-6-24_16-52-31.png


and you do have an RCD on most circuits.
Adding an RCD to the Garage would be wise, but that might not require a new CU.
 
Some silly errors, and some incorrect coding, but nothing scary in the test results

Buy the house, if you love it...
Don't worry about this certificate, the person who filled it in didn't.

When you move in get a decent Electrician to give it a once over, Im sure you will be making changes, so a good time for any corrective works
 
Looks like it's just the lighting (no big deal) and garage that isn't protected by an RCD. I agree with both the above. When you move in post some photos of the DB in the garage in this thread and we should be able to advise or confirm what Efli says.
 
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He's put down 6 milli as the CPC on 10 Milli T&E.

He's also put 1.5 down for the CPC on 2.5 cable. In a 1980 house (assuming it has not been rewired since then), it is likely 2.5/ 1.0.
 
Thank you to everybody for your help! I admit, I'm not an electrician so I don't fully understand everything, but the key thing is that the house is safe to buy and move into!
 
securespark said:
He's also put 1.5 down for the CPC on 2.5 cable. In a 1980 house (assuming it has not been rewired since then), it is likely 2.5/ 1.0.
Click to expand...
The readings look more consistent with 2.5/1.5 than 2.5/1.0 to me.

If we take the aveage of the R1 and Rn readings (assuming the difference is measurement error) amd assume 2.5/1.5 we get expected CPC resistances of 0.87 for circuit 2 (in the RCD group) and 1.37 for circuit 3 in the RCD group. If we assume 2.5/1.0 the we would expect 1.3 for circuit 2 and 2.05 for circuit 3.
 
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