EICR report questions - very concerned

[keycare]

Hi all,

My daughter just moved into a rental property in Uxbridge that had an EICR done in June.

There are a couple of things that I am concerned over.

1. There is a bathroom pull-switch that is cracked such that the connections are exposed. This is mentioned in the report with a C3 classification. Is this appropriate?
2. There is no earth for the main house lights, the report says that 'metal fittings are not recommended' yet there are metal ceiling and wall lights. There is no mention of them being double insulated and the classification again is C3, is this a cause for concern?
3. There are 'what looks like' old copper cable ends protruding from the lounge wall. They look very old but they are not mentioned in the report. I have told my daughter not to go near them as there is no way of her finding out if they are live or not. I suspect not but should this have been picked up by the report?
4. There is a single extension socket (the rubberised type attached to a flex) that has been plastered into the wall, the flex can be seen disappearing into the wall. No idea where that flex goes or what the other end plus into. The socket is dead but it is not mentioned at all on the EICR?
5. 3 of the sockets (2 double and 1 single) are dead, but this again is not mentioned on the EICR.
6. May be minor, but this is a ground floor flat but one of the labels on the CU states that the MCB covers sockets on ground floor *and* first floor. Should this have been verified?

What do you suggest I advise my daughter to do?

Many thanks,
Rich

 

[EFLImpudence]

1. There is a bathroom pull-switch that is cracked such that the connections are exposed. This is mentioned in the report with a C3 classification. Is this appropriate?

Not as it is now; perhaps it was less damaged in June.

2. There is no earth for the main house lights, the report says that 'metal fittings are not recommended' yet there are metal ceiling and wall lights. There is no mention of them being double insulated and the classification again is C3, is this a cause for concern?

Well, it depends whether they are Class2. If they are then it is alright.

3. There are 'what looks like' old copper cable ends protruding from the lounge wall. They look very old but they are not mentioned in the report. I have told my daughter not to go near them as there is no way of her finding out if they are live or not. I suspect not but should this have been picked up by the report?

I suppose it could have been mentioned.

You say "what looks like". What is it?

4. There is a single extension socket (the rubberised type attached to a flex) that has been plastered into the wall, the flex can be seen disappearing into the wall. No idea where that flex goes or what the other end plus into. The socket is dead but it is not mentioned at all on the EICR?

A bit naff but nothing really wrong with such an installation method.

Again, perhaps it was discussed with the previous tenant or landlord.

5. 3 of the sockets (2 double and 1 single) are dead, but this again is not mentioned on the EICR.

Again, as above.

6. May be minor, but this is a ground floor flat but one of the labels on the CU states that the MCB covers sockets on ground floor *and* first floor. Should this have been verified?

Well, yes. Again, perhaps it was.

What do you suggest I advise my daughter to do?

I don't mean to just be sticking up for the EICR inspector because we hear of lots of bad ones but your questions are impossible to answer as nothing you say is definitely wrong.
It might be or it might not be.

No one on the internet will be able to tell.


Contact the landlord and find out for certain about all your queries.

 

[Murdochcat]

Does your daughter have a copy of the EICR ?

 

[keycare]

Does your daughter have a copy of the EICR ?

Yes she has a copy of the EICR.

The landlord as agreed to get the electrician to return and check the items I have listed.

Thank you both for your prompt replies, I understand it can be difficult to provide a considered opinion under such circumstances, but it was greatly appreciated anyway.

 

[Murdochcat]

Yes she has a copy of the EICR.

The landlord as agreed to get the electrician to return and check the items I have listed.

Thank you both for your prompt replies, I understand it can be difficult to provide a considered opinion under such circumstances, but it was greatly appreciated anyway.

the landlord (or letting agents) has a responsibility to provide the tenant with a copy of the EICR

 

[ericmark]

the landlord (or letting agents) has a responsibility to provide the tenant with a copy of the EICR

Are you sure? I have tried to read the Welsh law about EICR's and I have to admit I could not work out what was required. I know a law has been passed which means rental homes need testing, but it, unlike the English version, is not easy to read.

Yes she has a copy of the EICR.

So not a problem anyway.

No one on the internet will be able to tell.

That about says it all, it seems land lord is helping anyway, so nothing really to add.

 

[JohnW2]

the landlord (or letting agents) has a responsibility to provide the tenant with a copy of the EICR

The legislation says that is the responsibility of a landlord (see below). I'm sure that, in practice, many a landlord probably delegates that task to an agent, but if the tenant is then not provided with a copy of the report, then I assume it is the landlord that would be held in law to be breach of the requirement.

Are you sure? I have tried to read the Welsh law about EICR's and I have to admit I could not work out what was required.

I know nothing of the Welsh law, but the English law seems very clear:

(3) Following the inspection and testing required under sub-paragraphs (1)(b) and (c) a private landlord must—
(a)obtain a report from the person conducting that inspection and test, which gives the results of the inspection and test and the date of the next inspection and test;
(b)supply a copy of that report to each existing tenant of the residential premises within 28 days of the inspection and test;

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I know nothing of the Welsh law, but the English law seems very clear:

What has that got to do with it, last time I looked West Glamorgan was in Wales, so no point quoting English law.

At the moment we are seeing every week some one looking for accommodation, the Laws have made it no longer a good investment renting property, we are seeing ex-rental properties going up for sale as landlords it seems are moving to the mobile home market where the rules are not as strict.

It may be different in the city's, but in this small village some friends of mine could only find a room over a fish and chips shop, which had massive damp problems so were forced to move out of the area, it is not holiday homes causing lack of rented accommodation but the daft Welsh government, who seem to think they can cure everything with goody goody laws.

 

[JohnW2]

What has that got to do with it, last time I looked West Glamorgan was in Wales..., so no point quoting English law.

It is indeed in Wales. I was trying to make the 'point' that, although I had no idea what the Welsh legislation said (I will look), the English Law (on which I would imagine the Welsh law is based) is very clear about the landlord's responsibilities.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Are you sure? I have tried to read the Welsh law about EICR's and I have to admit I could not work out what was required. I know a law has been passed which means rental homes need testing, but it, unlike the English version, is not easy to read.

I agree that, at least for me, the situation is very condused/confusing.

What Welsh legislation are you talking about?

I had thought that we were talking about some Welsh equivalent of the 2020 English legislation relating specifically to electrical installation is private rented accommodation, but I can find no such animal. Am I missing it?

All I can find is "The Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016" (which apparently 'came into force' on 1st December 2022 - why so late?). Again, unless I'm missing something, 99% of that is about contractual matters, and the nearest I can find to anything relevant to this discussion is this very vaue bit ...

92 Landlord's obligation to keep dwelling in repair​

(1) The landlord under a secure contract, a periodic standard contract or a fixed term standard contract made for a term of less than seven years must—
........... (b)keep in repair and proper working order the service installations in the dwelling...................... .....
(4) In this Part, “service installation” means an installation for the supply of water, gas or electricity, for sanitation, for space heating or for heating water.

...am I missing (a lot) more?

However, various Welsh Government sources (e.g. this one , and many third-party sources are talking about the requirement for an EICR (which they call "Periodic Inspection and Testing", PIT) which arose, as a result of the above Act, on 1st December 2022.

What am I missing and where is the legislation relating specifically to inspections of electrical installations in rented accommodation in Wales?

Kind Regards, John

So not a problem anyway.

That about says it all, it seems land lord is helping anyway, so nothing really to add.

 

[ericmark]

As you have likely realised the Welsh versions are hard to navigate. I have really given up, as all I can find is guides, and often the guides don't really follow what the law says, it is what some one thinks it should say.

 

[Murdochcat]

As you have likely realised the Welsh versions are hard to navigate. I have really given up, as all I can find is guides, and often the guides don't really follow what the law says, it is what some one thinks it should say.

the best I can offer is

Fitness for human habitation: guidance for tenants (contract holders) [HTML] | GOV.WALES

Information for contract holders explaining what landlords must do from 1 December 2022 to ensure rented homes in Wales are fit for human habitation.

www.gov.wales

then look down to the heading “inspection and testing of the electrical installation”

this seems fairly clear

 

[JohnW2]

As you have likely realised the Welsh versions are hard to navigate.

That's one way of looking at it.

However, from where I currently am, I am far from convinced that there actually IS any such legislation (specifying landlord responsibilities as regards inspections of electrical installations in rented accommodation in Wales).

If such legislation does exist, what is it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

the best I can offer is

Fitness for human habitation: guidance for tenants (contract holders) [HTML] | GOV.WALES

Information for contract holders explaining what landlords must do from 1 December 2022 to ensure rented homes in Wales are fit for human habitation.

www.gov.wales

Yes, that was the document I was referring to (and to which I provided a link).

.... then look down to the heading “inspection and testing of the electrical installation” .... this seems fairly clear

It is fairly clear. However, this document is not 'legislation' ('law'). As I said, at the start it refers to The Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016, implying that what the document goes on to say is a consequence of that Acy - but, as I said, looking through that Act I have so far not found anything specific relating to 'inspection and testing of the electrical installation'.

So, I again ask, where (if anywhere) is the legislation underpinning what that document says about the I&T?

 

[ericmark]

With the English version there is a link to the actual law, but the Welsh version has no link, so it is some ones opinion of what the law means, not the law.

I have found things like "(4)In this Part, “service installation” means an installation for the supply of water, gas or electricity, for sanitation, for space heating or for heating water." but can't find anything which says an EICR must be done, in fact it seems to say a landlord is not responsible until he has been told by tenant that repairs are required. Unless on the outside of the dwelling.