Excessive quote?

[Jimmy_103]

After a bit of advice. We've had 4 builders round to quote on the following work and only one has got back to us with a price of 3k. I was expecting 1.5 to 2k based on my estimates of materials and time:
- use electrician to move internal double socket 400mm to side (£150?)
- divert single storey soil stack 1m to side (materials £100 at most, no ground works needed, all builders have said it's a "quick easy job") = £100 materials plus half day labour.
- cut opening and install lintel for new window in solid brick wall (single storey, easy access, nothing in the way on either side once soil stack is diverted, concrete lintel sufficient as walls are rendered) = £100 materials(?) plus 2 man days labour.
- supply and fit new window in opening, and replace adjacent window with same type (estimate of £200 per window max for supply) = £500 materials plus half man day labour
- make good render on outside, plaster on inside (no window board as it'll be tiled) = £100 materials plus half man day labour.

At £250/day labour rate (bit of a guess but sounds generous), that would come to £875 (3.5 days), and materials would come to approx. £800. Including electrician for the socket at the start, the total I estimated was £1725.

Is there something I'm missing? I've told builders I'll sort a skip and building control.

 

[Deluks]

Get more builders to quote until you have 3 quotes to compare.

 

[Jimmy_103]

Get more builders to quote until you have 3 quotes to compare.

I'm trying! Most builders either don't turn up to look or never get back with a quote. I'm trying to get an idea if my expectations of the price are too low (and need to save costs elsewhere - this is part of a kitchen reno), or the builder that has quoted is taking the p***

 

[^woody^]

I'm trying to get an idea if my expectations of the price are too low

You are hostage to the market/capitalist system and if you are getting several quotes higher than you imagined then the quotes must be "correct" (even if dubious) and your expectations incorrect (even if based on reasonable thought).

You could prepare a schedule of work and ask for sections to be priced individually, that's how formal tenders work. But if contractors are not even bothering without such a schedule it would put them right off if they think that you actually know a bit about pricing

 

[Deluks]

This is a DIY site, don't fancy having a go yourself?

 

[Jimmy_103]

This is a DIY site, don't fancy having a go yourself?

I am tempted but thought it would be a relatively quick (cheap) job for a pro while I do the rest of the kitchen (new units/appliances and tiled floor). While I'm waiting for more quotes, I'm going to look into DIYing the soil stack diversion (can't be hard right?!). I'm not comfortable doing the chopping out/lintel install unless someone can convince me it's easy, and by the time I've rented acros and a stihl saw, I'm not sure how much I'll save.

 

[lostinthelight]

Not tried myself but this may make it easier for Diy?
https://www.helifix.co.uk/blog/how-to-create-or-repair-a-window-lintel

 

[thomp1983]

Apart from the plastering and render all of that job is diyable, what's above where the window is going?

Moving the socket is just modifying an existing circuit so is fine for diy the worst part of the job is making a chase if it's all to be hidden which is easy enough just messy.

Window installion, unless your using a fensa registered builder then fit it yourself, it's a simple job just take the time to get it all level and square, you'll need to cut and refit some bricks to make a neat job of it unless your happy to use finishing trim to hide the cut bricks.

 

[Jimmy_103]

Apart from the plastering and render all of that job is diyable, what's above where the window is going?

Moving the socket is just modifying an existing circuit so is fine for diy the worst part of the job is making a chase if it's all to be hidden which is easy enough just messy.

Window installion, unless your using a fensa registered builder then fit it yourself, it's a simple job just take the time to get it all level and square, you'll need to cut and refit some bricks to make a neat job of it unless your happy to use finishing trim to hide the cut bricks.

Above the lintel will be about 5 courses of brick, and a pitched concrete tile roof (it's a rear extension), so needs to be able to support that. If I did DIY that bit I would prefer to over-spec a lintel as I've not got much of an idea when it comes to calculating loads.

For window install, why would I need to cut and refit bricks? It's rendered on outside and plastered on inside, so I had assumed that this would cover the cut bricks, or am I missing what you meant?

My feeling is to get back to the builders that have had a look and ask them for a price on just the cutting out and lintel install, and do the rest myself, but I'll wait on remaining quotes in the meantime

 

[jacko555]

Window installion, unless your using a fensa registered builder then fit it yourself,

I think building regs apply for a new window. If not using a fensa or similar competent person scheme, you'd need to get the work signed off.

I think

 

[Jimmy_103]

I think building regs apply for a new window. If not using a fensa or similar competent person scheme, you'd need to get the work signed off.

I think

yeah building regs do apply, I've spoken to local council and they were helpful. Said as long as the new opening is ok with regs (main regs to watch out for were 665mm between corner return and start of new opening, and no more than 2/3 of total wall can be opening), then the fitting of the window would be fine, and would also cover replacement of the adjacent window without the need for fensa

 

[thomp1983]

Sorry didn't click with the render, yes that would cover the cut bricks, depending on window size between 3-5 acrows with strongboys would do it.

You'd need to check with your building inspector but I'd think an off the shelf concrete lintel would be adequate for size it'll probably need to bear a minimum of 150mm either side of the opening, if a concrete lintel isn't acceptable then you'll need to get steel calcs done.

I wouldn't think it would be much cheaper getting a builder in just for the opening unless your lucky and find one with not much on as it's a small job and there's plenty work at the minute.

I didn't mention regs for the window as the mentioned he was dealing with all that already.

 

[Jimmy_103]

You are hostage to the market/capitalist system and if you are getting several quotes higher than you imagined then the quotes must be "correct" (even if dubious) and your expectations incorrect (even if based on reasonable thought).

You could prepare a schedule of work and ask for sections to be priced individually, that's how formal tenders work. But if contractors are not even bothering without such a schedule it would put them right off if they think that you actually know a bit about pricing

I get that, but wondering how they can justify such a price - I've asked for a breakdown of costs but they've said they'll send the full quote if I accept the quote. I have no issue if they say they think it'll take twice as long as I think, or their labour price is 350/day due to demand, but without those details it feels OTT

 

[^woody^]

Insurance, consumables, overheads, uplifts, travel, holidays, quote and tender costs, etc.

Do you question your car servicing, solicitor, doctor, dentist, car insurance rates in the same way?

If someone asks for a quote and then they get a quote that should be the end of it - take it or leave it. When potential customers then start questioning the quote, you tend to find that no-one wants to work for that customer and the builders suddenly become very busy and can't seem to fit that customer in anymore.

 

[Jimmy_103]

Insurance, consumables, overheads, uplifts, travel, holidays, quote and tender costs, etc.

Do you question your car servicing, solicitor, doctor, dentist, car insurance rates in the same way?

If someone asks for a quote and then they get a quote that should be the end of it - take it or leave it. When potential customers then start questioning the quote, you tend to find that no-one wants to work for that customer and the builders suddenly become very busy and can't seem to fit that customer in anymore.

I disagree. If someone asks for a quote, the price should reflect the cost of the work and the experience of the person carrying out the work. All the extras you mentioned (Insurance, consumables, overheads, uplifts, travel, holidays, quote and tender costs, etc.) are accounted for in their labour costs.

Builders over quoting because they don't want the work is a very real thing, and I'm just trying to understand if that's the case here. I haven't questioned the quote, I've only asked for more detail than a text saying "about 3k all in". Not sure about you, but I would 100% question such a quote from car servicing, solicitor, doctor, dentist, car insurance rates etc, if it was similarly vague and double what I'm used to paying