Gap around DIY Window Seat Lid. And Number of Hinges?

[redlos]

Hi All. I am making a window seat with some concealed storage and having fitted and made the frame I am now looking at the top and lid(door) for the storage compartment. Never done it before so have a couple of questions.

First. How much of a gap should I leave around the lid and it’s frame. The lid will be made of 18mm plywood. Also the lid length will be approx 1200mm. How many hinges would you use and what length hinge, for this length of plywood. It will ideally open to about 130 degrees.

I will probably use piano hinges for ease but I thought about using more than one, rather than one continuous one. Is there any advantage to this or would one long one suffice. Also do they come with a standard measurement for the thickness ie how do I know what gap to give the hinge the space it needs to open, between the lid and frame?
Thanks in advance.

P.S. anyone know how precise the timber cutting service is? Can they take off measurements <1cm from a 60cm wide board?

 

[foxhole]

Piano hinges fit to surface so won’t be concealed?
[GALLERY=media, 101076][/GALLERY]
I used T hinges on mine but was larger at around 2.4m.Kitchen work top.Ply may tend to warp, MDF has a smoother easier to paint finish.
You need a stay of some type to keep it open while accessing.

 

[redlos]

That looks lovely. It’s being made for my newly married daughter and son in law and they’re on a budget so the kitchen worktop is probably a bit beyond budget. If the hinges I’m intending to use have a 270 degree opening and there’s a window sill behind and using plywood so not heavy like a work top, is it necessary to have a stay? I’ve not seen that on any of the online diy videos I’ve watched.

Does ply warp more than mdf?

Have just seen the bit about piano hinges fitting to the surface so won’t be concealed? Don’t they go on the inside with the knuckle bit showing? When I said concealed it referred to the storage not the hinge.

Thanks.

 

[foxhole]

That looks lovely. It’s being made for my newly married daughter and son in law and they’re on a budget so the kitchen worktop is probably a bit beyond budget. If the hinges I’m intending to use have a 270 degree opening and there’s a window sill behind and using plywood so not heavy like a work top, is it necessary to have a stay? I’ve not seen that on any of the online diy videos I’ve watched.

Does ply warp more than mdf?

Have just seen the bit about piano hinges fitting to the surface so won’t be concealed? Don’t they go on the inside with the knuckle bit showing? When I said concealed it referred to the storage not the hinge.

Thanks.

You will struggle to attach piano hinge to end grain of ply.

 

[redlos]

You will struggle to attach piano hinge to end grain of ply.

Ok. Does that mean it’s impossible?

Does mdf hold screws better?

Any ideas?

 

[Loofah]

Do you have a pic of the install?
Pilot the screw holes and it should be fine using a thin longer screw.
I made mine using studwork for the frame and boarded with 22mm MDF then panelled with softwood and all painted.
How are you supporting the lid? Mine rest on the studwork framing, hinged using basic butt hinges.

 

[redlos]

Thanks. Yes here’s a picture.

Have just been reading about pilot holes for plywood edging, so thanks for that.
I’m going to be putting some additional timber where the black lines are to support the door and pull the area where the lid will pull up away from under the window sill. So as you’ve done, the lid will be resting on the studs.

So did you screw into mdf edges for the hinges then?

 

[ETAF]

i used piano hinges on mine - we have 4 sections and i made 4 flaps with 4 piano hinge
I used a filler across the back , so that when the lid was lifted , it set back agains the windows

I looked into all sorts of stays , hydraulic etc ..... but ended up without those

It was a problem in the end grain , but i did manage to get longer screws and it seems to have worked ok , so far

half is a kids toybox , so when the grandchildren or freinds children are here , they do tend to use it a lot - and still OK, constructed , just as covid hit ..... so the MDF was a lot cheaper

 

[Notch7]

Piano hinges will be fine on the end grain of ply - if it’s decent ply without loads of voids and splits.

each screw holding won’t be that strong, but there are plenty of screws in a piano hinge.

Piano hinge comes in various sizes, pick one which is around 38mm or less in width so it sits on the 18mm ply edge ok.

Bear in mind piano hinges are thin metal and usually need special small head piano hinge screws (Google piano hinge screws)

 

[redlos]

Thanks everyone. ETAF. My seat/storage will really only be used for storing items that don’t need to be on show but still need to be stored, so the opening and closing of the lid will be pretty infrequent, unlike your toy box, so if yours has held hopefully this will too.

Notch7 yes I did a bit of research on hinges which is why I thought piano hinges might be the way to go and most of the ones I’ve looked do come with a good amount of screws. Maybe I’ll be able to use those mostly, but with a few longer ones where possible.
Maths was never my strong point so trying to get my head around something that is “38mm or less so it sits on the 18mm plywood ok “ is confusing
Presumably that’s the total width of the leaves being 38mm or less, when the hinge is fully open??

Thanks again everyone.

 

[ETAF]

P.S. anyone know how precise the timber cutting service is? Can they take off measurements <1cm from a 60cm wide board?

i have used B&Q cutting service , in a few locations , that was before i purchased a Circular saw & Guides myself, and it was OK
I had a lot of normal chipboard , white finished - and cut up for shelves in kitchen cabinets, and so made sure the finished edge was visible at the front , I had a diagram of how i wanted it cut up, and worked fine, I had to pay at that time, but i think you now get so many cuts free.
Also for the window seat in bedroom, I had the standard MDF cut up to size for me, again I worked out the cuts for a sheet of MDF

 

[redlos]

Sounds great ETAF. Not sure my skills could stretch to drawers and yes need to maximise storage as they haven’t got much in their flat.

 

[ETAF]

in addition to the above post

not sure what happened ........ seem to have edited previous post

Timber Cutting Service | Plywood & Wood Panel Cutting | B&Q

Come in-store and make use of our timber cutting service. We can cut timber, inlcuding plywood and wood panels, bought from B&Q to the size you need, any day of the week.

www.diy.com

yes 5 cuts free - then 50p a cut
one of the issues I had was the service was not always open..... luckily - i was local at that time , so i could go back , unlike now , where the nearest B&Q is about 16miles away, and so i have called up to see if running
One site the saw was down , and they did not expect it fixed for a few days - turned out to be weeks

 

[Loofah]

Thanks. Yes here’s a picture.

Have just been reading about pilot holes for plywood edging, so thanks for that.
I’m going to be putting some additional timber where the black lines are to support the door and pull the area where the lid will pull up away from under the window sill. So as you’ve done, the lid will be resting on the studs.

So did you screw into mdf edges for the hinges then?

Much the same framing as mine! Yes, just screwed into the MDF; the lid is fully supported so the hinge isn't taking any load. I also skipped the stays, sometimes it's annoying mostly it's fine. I also didn't have to be too 'pretty' about the top as I had a seat cushion made to cover it all.
There's no way I could have used a cutting service either as I was making it up as I went along

 

[redlos]

Ok. Great ETAF was wondering if they cut mdf or not.
Yes that would be my problem no more local BnQs here either since they closed two that were close by.

So specifically with regards to BnQ cutting narrower pieces. Because I have the window sill above as said, I need to ensure that the hinge part is forward of that, so was going to have a measurement of 53mm x 1340mm stop and attaching to the frame. With some of the frame (black lines in photo) giving some support to the lid. Anyone know if that’s something BnQ could cut?
I may end up changing the configuration of the lid as I go though to whatever suits best. .