Gate automation

[FozzieBear]

Just a quick question. I am about to source a 5 bar gate for my drive and want to fit an electric opener to it.
If using gate automation, is it better to hang the gate on the face of the post in line with the gates or on the face at 90 degrees to the gate i.e. on the back of the post. The gate needs to open just over a right angle e.g 110 degrees. I was going to use a cantilever opener rather than a ram similar to this unless anyone advises against these.
Fozzie

 

[ericmark]

The rules and regulations for unattended gate operation is today rather strict. There have been cases of children injured and some high profile court cases where things have gone wrong.

Being honest even a car door can cause really nasty injuries where people get there hands in the way and they are manually closed so the automatic gate has to be far better in safety than manual gates. I think from reading this report that there is a limit of 440 lbs force. Where a gate is hinged as one gets closer to the hinge the force increases so it is near impossible to have a hinged gate that can comply unless the hinge has some sensor fitted to detect when something is trapped.

If you have a gate to stop anyone reaching the motorised gate then you can motorise it. So on a farm with no public assess gates could be motorised to allow the tractors to pass. So noting wrong in selling the parts to do this. It's just the using of these parts where there is public assess.

In other words this is not a DIY job.

 

[FozzieBear]

The rules and regulations for unattended gate operation is today rather strict.

.............In other words this is not a DIY job.

Thanks for responding. Whilst I have asked for advice on this forum and should expect negative as well as positive responses I believe you are being overly cautious in saying this is not a DIY job. In a previous life I was a Health and Safety Office for a large Fire and Rescue Service and am well aware of the potential for injury from machinery and situations and comfortable in applying risk assessment to most things I do. This includes rebuilding my own house including re-wiring and re-plumbing including the internal gas supplies. Granted this was before the introduction of Corgi and now Gas Safe requirements but I still followed industry best practice and to be honest my standard of workmanship was far higher than British Gas engineers and Corgi register plumbers that have since worked on my heating system.

What I am trying to say is that I believe I am competent to install a pair of automated five bar gates using the correct fitting kits including photocells to prevent closure whilst an object is in the closing position.
I merely asked if hanging the gates on the back of the posts had any advantages over hanging the gates inline. Both appear to be accepted installation methods.
Fozzie

 

[sparkymarka]

That told eric ! On the rear a larger opening plus you can get your 110 degree depending on operator type

 

[Sam Gangee]

In a previous life I was a Health and Safety Office

So you were an office and you've reincarnated as a stroppy bear?

In fairness, Eric's reply mirrors what mine would have said. Frankly, unless you include your experience in your Profile, you can't expect people to guess that you are not amongst the 99% of bozos who post questions here without any idea of the ramifications.

Tip: if you want to receive helpful replies in the future, don't put down a man who spent ten minutes of his life trying to type a helpful reply. I would also add that Eric is actually dyslexic so he has to work harder than most of us when he hits the keyboard. (But you weren't to know that. It's not in his profile.)

 

[FozzieBear]

So you were an office and you've reincarnated as a stroppy bear?

In fairness, Eric's reply mirrors what mine would have said. Frankly, unless you include your experience in your Profile, you can't expect people to guess that you are not amongst the 99% of bozos who post questions here without any idea of the ramifications.

Tip: if you want to receive helpful replies in the future, don't put down a man who spent ten minutes of his life trying to type a helpful reply. I would also add that Eric is actually dyslexic so he has to work harder than most of us when he hits the keyboard. (But you weren't to know that. It's not in his profile.)

In fairness to Eric I did not set out to put him down and don't believe my response did that. I merely tried to say that I was a "Competent Person". Also I am not sure what information in a my profile would have made to Eric's response. If I had said I was a retired Fire Officer and an Electronics engineer would that really have changed his post?

Maybe I misunderstand this forum but I thought it was to help people with genuine questions who are trying to seek advice from either the professionals who post here such as yourself or other people who had undertaken similar projects. Clearly there are certain jobs that because of legislation require a qualified professional to undertake but I don't think hanging a pair of powered entrance gates falls into that category.
My initial question was from a practical viewpoint is it better to hang gates between the posts or behind when fitting powered openers. There may have been an obvious point I had overlooked like the available space to mount the closer or the mechanical advantage of one location over another.
As to the "Stroppy" Bear Avatar and alias that's not of my own choosing but a name given to me as new recruit over 30 years ago and has stuck with me throughout my life. I use it on all the forums I visit but the original label was because of my happy and sunny disposition, not that I am stroppy git

 

[bernardgreen]

Clearly there are certain jobs that because of legislation require a qualified professional to undertake but I don't think hanging a pair of powered entrance gates falls into that category.

May be not a qualified professional but a person experienced in ( or able to evaulate ) the dangers that powered entrance gates create. Crush zones next to the hinge being one of the most often overlooked dangers. The crushing force at the hinge end of a gate is many times the force at the far end of the gate where the "maximum safe" force is calculated.

 

[FozzieBear]

Clearly there are certain jobs that because of legislation require a qualified professional to undertake but I don't think hanging a pair of powered entrance gates falls into that category.

May be not a qualified professional but a person experienced in ( or able to evaulate ) the dangers that powered entrance gates create. Crush zones next to the hinge being one of the most often overlooked dangers. The crushing force at the hinge end of a gate is many times the force at the far end of the gate where the "maximum safe" force is calculated.
View attachment 88574

Totally agree but isn't the magic eye beam across the gates the safety interlock which is supposed to stop this happening. The gates should not close if the beam is broken by an obstruction such as a child?

 

[bernardgreen]

Depending how the gate is hung the crush can be when the gate is opening.

 

[75pete]

Sorry I can't help to add any information but I hope I can ask a question. We are looking at a house that has a electric gate, what if any, safety certificate should I ask for?

 

[SimonH2]

Sorry I can't help to add any information but I hope I can ask a question.

It's generally best to start a new thread.
At least some people may have looked at the start of the thread, determined that there's nothing they can contribute and/or it's not something they're interested in and won't look again. Thus they'll never see your question.

Also, on some "lively" threads, the the two discussions (the original one and your) can get intertwined in a way that can make things quite "interesting" to follow !

 

[75pete]

Good point Simon, I've have a bit of a read and now am clear about it thanks.