Hairline cracks in grout

[Adam75]

Hi

In May 2017 we had an extension including an en-suite, however last month when cleaning the shower, a pool of water formed on the floor. This may have happened before but we had a box next to the shower. I moved the box and it was soaking underneath. I then noticed the walls were wet at each end of the quadrant shower tray. The shower tray has a lip, I was told as it had a lip no sealant was required where the tiles meet the tray.

I effortlessly scrapped out the very wet plaster & plasterboard right back to the celotex.

The builder came over, he hadn't seen this before and said it was due to the design of the lip on the tray and advised I should put sealant down. Not too much effort so i did this, let it dry, filled in the plaster (see pics) and starting using the shower again. It still leaked!

I went round with sealant over ever possible leak area, including the screws joining the shower enclosure screws etc but still getting leak.

Checked the plumbing, no sign of a leak but I noticed a small hole in the grout which I have now filled. Upon closer inspection I have noticed a few hairline cracks in the grout (see pics), especially where the grout never seems to dry even after not using the shower for a week. I did mention the different grout colour to the builder but he wasn’t concerned.

So is it likely that these hairline cracks are causing the leak? It is bone dry under the tray but it wold be due to the lip.

If the hairline cracks are causing the leak do I need to rake it all out and start again? None of the tiles seem loose.

Thanks
Adam

 

[Adam75]

 

[Doggit]

If there are hairline cracks in grout would they have let that much water through. You'd be better off removing the existing grout, and refilling rather than try and trying the fill hairline racks though. A lot of show trays have an upstand, but you should still leave a 5mm gap at the bottom, and then silicone it, as you don't know how much water would splash back up and over the upstand. Or did he tile right down to the shower tray; that'd make it more difficult to seal properly, and could justify asking for the shower to be redone.

 

[Adam75]

Thanks Doggit. There is a gap between the tray & the tiles. Sounds like I need to scrap out the dark/damp grout. Will try the shower again first after filling a gap 8mm with no grout in.

The leak starts after about 3 minutes in the shower so it takes a while for the water to build up.

When we cleaned the shower with the shower hose, my wide said a lot of bits of grout came out from this gap. It was the first time the shower was cleaned with the hose as up to then my wife did not know how to take the hose down.

 

[Doggit]

Try spraying the hose on sections of the tray, to try and narrow down where the leaks coming from. I certainly don't think it's the hairline cracks, but I think they should be done at some stage. But I have to say that those tiles don't look good for a shower, as they'll allow the water to run backwards, before it runs downwards, and if there are any cracks at the top of the tiles, then you're on to a hiding.

 

[Adam75]

I've tried spraying the hose all round the silicone in sections to try to pin point the leak but nothing. It only seems to leak after a few minutes of the water hitting the tiles. Used the shower today after filling in the 8mm grout gap, it leaked after a couple of minutes.

I think next steps are to scrap put the dark grout areas & re-grout

 

[Doggit]

I think you'll find the final solution, will be to replace those tiles I'm afraid. Best of luck though.

 

[Adam75]

I've just been to the shop where I purchased the tiles & grout. They obviously advised the tiles are for use in showers and they have had no problems with them. I'm going to spray the shower on an area where there is no crack in the grout to see what happens. Then do the same on the cracks.

Last resort is to replace them

 

[Doggit]

They may be for the shower, but I think you'd need a very experienced tiler to lay them; you're builder obviously wasn't, or he'd have taken them below the upstand, and then siliconed the gap.

 

[foxhole]

Looks like shower frame has not been sealed to wall, seen that result a lot .
Grout should have been flexible so as not to crack.

 

[Adam75]

Grout manufacturer came out, he believes the cracks and leaks are due to the grout being less than 3mm. In some places the tiles have been butt up against each other.

I remember asking the tiler to make the grout lines a thin as possible but at no point did he say this would mean it would not be water proof enough and leak!

Have taken one tile off and the plasterboard is damp. The grout came out easily!

I guess it all needs to come off now and replace the PB?

Are there any other things I can tray?

 

[pilsbury]

Not saying my situation is identical, but it seems similar..... in my old house, I installed the bathroom myself. I had what seems like the same issue as you. Water leaking in the corners of the enclosure low down. This surprised me as I had siliconed the **** out of it to ensure I avoided leaks. Tried to work out where the leak was coming from for ages, leaving the shower on, spraying water around, but it seemed it only happened when people had a shower. After weeks of cursing and coming close to having a bath only policy I had a eureka moment.

The instructions for my shower enclosure stated only use silicone on the outside of the enclosure. Being far more knowledgable than any one else in the world, I thought I’d silicone on the inside too around the base to double prevent leaks. What was happening, was as someone had a shower, splashing water around, some water was getting into the wall channel piece - the bit you screw to the wall that your enclosure then fits into - filling this up as opposed to the water escaping out naturally on the internal side. This water then leaked out of the external side onto the floor with a 20minute delayed action. All because I siliconed inside the tray too. Sod’s law it chose the outside to leak from.

Yours looks like you bought shares in the silicone factory. Maybe you too have belt and braces like me.......

 

[Keithmac]

I'd be fitting lage format smooth tiles in there rather than what you have now.

Seems an odd choice for a shower enclosure and very hard to seal/ grout properly?.

 

[Adam75]

Great commentary pilsbury, I too now have shares in silicone!

Unfortunately I had no sealant inside the enclosure first only went trigger happy after the leak. Glad yours is fixed.

The tiler hated these tiles and still does. He has offered 1 day free labour to re-tile but with different tiles. He said he’s spoken to his tiler mates and a few of them have used these tiles and also swore about them.

Have complained to Topps Tiles about the tiles that they are not fit for purpose and that their website states they can be butted together with 1mm grout lines, when the BAL guy they sent out said you must use at least 3mm. Waiting for a response but worth a try.

I think I’ll end up replacing them with new tiles as a lot of people have stated these tiles look a nightmare