Hinges

[carmanmemoranda]

I've built some cabinets (kitchen style, but not for kitchen use), and would like to use pre made doors, from BQ, Wickes, Howdens etc. But, for lightness I want to use thinner wood or plywood or mdf for the sides than the standard 18mm usually used. I would like to use soft closing hinges, but realise they might not mount onto the doors very well for strength long term.

Any ideas or comments please?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Kitchen cabinets can also be made from 15mm MFC, as some if the German manufacturers do (it's for transport weight)

Pre-made kitchen/bedroom doors tend to be made from 18mm MDF and are meant to take cup hinges which require something like an 11 to 13mm depth (from mory Blum is generally 13mm, I think Salice is 11.1mm or thereabouts, but I may be misremembering) for the cup (door) part, depending on manufacturer, and about a 12mm thickness for the carcass sides at the screws need to be 8 to 10mm long. One problem with going under 15mm for carcass sides is that you may need to fit riser plates beneath the cruciform plates of the (kitchen) hinges because standard kitchen/bedroom doors are designed to overlay a minimum 15mm carcass. Inset style doors (what the Americans call "face framed" cabs) still require the same carcass thickness

If you want to use conventional miniature butt hinges or surface mounting style hinges on MDF doors you will find that the screws don't last that long unless you drill out the screw holes and glue in hardwood dowels which can be flushed off and then pilot drilled.

If you can get a cup hinge that works, you can get soft close on a version of the hinge from most big manufacturers. Alternatively Blum, Hettich, Salice, Hafele, Grass, etc all seem to offer face mounting and/or edge of carcass drill-in type soft closers. Some manufacturers almost have clip-on soft closers which fix onto specific hinges in their ranges

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Ok, thanks for that. So probably best to use thicker sides to the cabinets? What minimum thickness and what material would you suggest for as lightweight as practical ?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

It depends on the doors and hinges, really, plus what is readily available for carcassing. Generally available sheet materials for carcassing will probably be the limiting factor with the choice being (lightest to heaviest) birch plywood (12 and 18mm - sometimes 15mm is available), hardwood ply (12, 15 and 18mm - can vary a lot in density) and MFC (15 and 18mm), although MDF and MFC weigh about the same. If you can get it poplar ply would be the lightest for a given thickness, but it tends to only be available in a few parts of the UK (e.g. where they build caravans, like East Yorkshire) followed by the so-called lightweight MDF (also called LDF), also a specialist product stocked for the furniture manufacturing trade

A traditional approach which is lighter would have been to choose a lightweight framing timber (e.g. poplar aka tulip wood), combined with thin panels (e.g. 6mm birch plywood). A way used in yhe past was to make up a softwood frame from 2 x 1in PSE and clad it with thin sheet material, but it takes a lot of effort to achieve an acceptable result

Mind if I ask what the end item is?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

It depends on the doors and hinges, really, plus what is readily available for carcassing. Generally available sheet materials for carcassing will probably be the limiting factor with the choice being (lightest to heaviest) birch plywood (12 and 18mm - sometimes 15mm is available), hardwood ply (12, 15 and 18mm - can vary a lot in density) and MFC (15 and 18mm), although MDF and MFC weigh about the same. If you can get it poplar ply would be the lightest for a given thickness, but it tends to only be available in a few parts of the UK (e.g. where they build caravans, like East Yorkshire) followed by the so-called lightweight MDF (also called LDF), also a specialist product stocked for the furniture manufacturing trade

A traditional approach which is lighter would have been to choose a lightweight framing timber (e.g. poplar aka tulip wood), combined with thin panels (e.g. 6mm birch plywood). A way used in yhe past was to make up a softwood frame from 2 x 1in PSE and clad it with thin sheet material, but it takes a lot of effort to achieve an acceptable result

Mind if I ask what the end item is?

Again, thanks.

Am I imagining a thing called block wood ? Strips of irregular sized wood (pine mostly?) with a thin facing over it? Seemed to be available a few years ago but cant find any now I'm looking. Was lightweight for its size. But 2 thin 6mm plywood sides with strip of timber inside them to take the hinge plates might work?

It's for inside of a van, so weight is important. A bit like a camper van conversion but not quite. Want it to look good and be nice to use, but will take some knocks with other stuff being used/carried in the van.

Could just buy some pre made units off ebay type places, but none of them are quite what or how I want, so making them myself. Building a framework, but want ready made doors if I can mount them.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Am I imagining a thing called block wood ? Strips of irregular sized wood (pine mostly?) with a thin facing over it?

Blockboard or laminboard - laminboard used thinner strips of timber. Most ofvthe stuff I saw was African or F/E hardwood core and it was at one time popular for exterior fire door cores. Really started to fall out of favour in the 1980s with the widespread availability of MDF, a better substrate for furniture manufacture as it is flatter, has no cores to telegraph through (can happen with block/laminboard) and is cheaper. As you say, it takes screws well and was a mainstay of the furniture manufacturing an shop fitting trades until the late 1980s. Was generally in 15, 18 or 22mm thicknesses in my experience, but it isn't the easiest of stuff to source these days

It's for inside of a van, so weight is important. A bit like a camper van conversion but not quite. Want it to look good and be nice to use, but will take some knocks with other stuff being used/carried in the van.

Maybe think differently? What about using 12mm birch plywood for your carcassing and 9mm birch plywood for your doors. Birch plywood is stronger and lighter than blockboard and can be edge sanded to leave the veneers visible, then clear lacquered, like in a trendy kitchen. 12mm thick can actually be biscuit jointed or dowelled. The doors could be 8 or 9mm birch plywood with the corners rounded and painted. Just a thought