Hive Installation with ideal combi 30

[Chris lowry]

Hello just looking a few things clarified before I order a hive heating system.

1. The time clock I have - will I just have to keep both zones on permanetly on?
2. I have two thermostats in the house one up stairs and one downstairs ( see pictures ) can I just wire the hive reciever into these by looking it appears I have the correct connections at these already? ( Will be purchasing the hive multi zone)
3. If I can do the above I intend to mount the hive thermostat just beside the reciever will this be an issue?

[GALLERY=media, 103770]IMG_20200109_161348 by Chris lowry posted 9 Jan 2020 at 4:29 PM[/GALLERY]
[GALLERY=media, 103769]IMG_20200109_161353 by Chris lowry posted 9 Jan 2020 at 4:29 PM[/GALLERY]
[GALLERY=media, 103768]IMG_20200109_161902 by Chris lowry posted 9 Jan 2020 at 4:29 PM[/GALLERY]
[GALLERY=media, 103767]IMG_20200109_161951 by Chris lowry posted 9 Jan 2020 at 4:29 PM[/GALLERY]

 

[stem]

1. The time clock I have - will I just have to keep both zones on permanetly on?

Yes, if you want to leave the 'time clock' in situ. Personally I would remove it and wire in the two Hive receivers in its place. But you need to be fairly electrically competent to do this.

2. I have two thermostats in the house one up stairs and one downstairs ( see pictures ) can I just wire the hive reciever into these by looking it appears I have the correct connections at these already? ( Will be purchasing the hive multi zone)

There will be two receivers, one for each thermostat. If you have a Permanent live (when the programmer is set 'on') a Neutral and a switched live at each thermostat, which from the photographs you appear to have, then you are good to go.

3. If I can do the above I intend to mount the hive thermostat just beside the reciever will this be an issue?

I don't think so and I've seen it done (not by me because as I said before I prefer to have the receiver elsewhere). They communicate with each other wirelessly, so too great a distance between them is more likely to create a problem. If you want to be sure check with the Hive helpline: [email protected]

You don't mention any hot water control, so I assume that means that you have a combi boiler for instant hot water on demand, and don't have a hot water cylinder.

 

[Chris lowry]

Many thanks for the reply. Will test the thermostat cable today to make sure it is a permanent live and yes it's a combi boiler.

 

[stem]

The live wire will come from the programmer. So it will only be live when the programmer is set to be 'on'. Hence why it must remain that way when the Hive is installed. otherwise the receiver won't be get any power.

 

[Chris lowry]

Ah yes it all makes sense now to me. Will prob eventually just blank off the thermostats in each room and put the two recievers at the time clock as mentioned. Father in law is an electrician so will leave that part to him!

 

[ericmark]

There is no reason to have two zones when using Hive, the boiler is designed to monitor the return water temperature and turn down as the temperature increases, or with yours I think you can also use a special thermostat called opentherm which also turns down the boiler rather than switching it off/on.

Each time a boiler switches off, any heat in the boiler is lost through the flue, so better if boiler turns up/down (modulates) rather than on/off.

Hive uses an odd method, it does not connect to ebus, however it does stay on until all the Hive TRV heads are satisfied, so it allows the boiler to use it's own modulating software. However to do this you have to use Hive TRV heads which talk to the Hive thermostat. However with all Hive TRV heads each room is its own zone, so no need for zone valves, easy method is to have one Hive wall thermostat work both zone valves, although better if removed.

However the Hive TRV heads are not cheap, so it is a balance, how many Hive heads and how many cheap programmable heads, the Hive head sends a demand for heat to the Hive wall thermostat, so the thermostat will act as a relay, so if living room asks for more heat than dinning room and you want them both heated at the same times, if the Hive TRV is in living room, you can put a cheap programmable TRV head in dinning room, or the reverse may be true. Same applies with bedrooms, if the Hive TRV head goes in coldest room, you can fit a cheaper head in the warmer room.

However it take some thought working out which rooms can have cheap heads and which need expensive (£60 v £10) and of course if you want to use TRV heads or wall thermostats and motorised valves. The TRV switches off gradually so does not produce a hysteresis in same way as motorised valves, but are more expensive to install.

Since it means one wall thermostat instead of two, now is the time to decide which route to take.

 

[stem]

If your house was built after 2010 it would have had the two thermostats installed as a requirement of the building regulations.

The requirement being that the sleeping and living areas have separate controls to save energy. Newer smart TRV's that also provide remote control of the boiler can be used to achieve the same thing.

 

[Chris lowry]

House was built in 2019 going to have to really consider my options about what will be best for the house and for me personally.

 

[ericmark]

These are room thermostats and they also can be set as to what time as well, the one shown Bluetooth cost me £15 each, without Bluetooth £10 each, Hive

are £54 each however there is nothing to say you must use Hive TRV linked to the wall thermostat as said with some thought you can have Hive in some rooms and cheap in other rooms.

Once the head is swapped to electronic they are motorised zone valves, the difference is how they tell the boiler what to do, with the old style motorised valve there is a micro switch in the valve which connects to boiler, with new it sends a signal to the wall thermostat which connects to a boiler.

The big difference is old zone valve switches on/off, new TRV head switches up/down so it has a lot of advantages.
1) It allows the boiler to modulate as it is designed to do, so uses less fuel.
2) It does not completely switch off, but changes the set temperature, so with Eco and Comfort setting one can heat a room from pre-set lower limit to pre-set upper limit rather than allow it to get stone cold, so ready for use faster.
3) Every room is its own zone, so if a bedroom is used as an office or craft room that room can be warmed without also heating bedrooms.
4) The cheap TRV shown has open window detect, so in the kitchen when the outside door is open to unload car, it auto turns the radiator off, then reheats room once the door is closed.
5) As well as phone, one can simply push a button to flick between Eco and Comfort or press dial for boost or turn dial for non programmed temperature (that's the cheap one, I don't have Hive)

I am very pleased with the 9 electronic TRV heads in my house, 4 expensive Energenie and 5 cheap eQ-3, but I have Nest and unfortunately when Nest was taken over by Google they removed support for Energenie so they no longer link to wall thermostat. Hive uses a demand for heat, so when the TRV wants heat the wall thermostat turns on the boiler even if the wall thermostat is warm enough, in other words the TRV controls room temperature, the wall thermostat is a hub relaying to boiler what is required.

OK with your boiler Nest would connect to OpenTherm so would reduce the temperature of circulating water as required, which would also mean zone valves would not work, as can't connect two OpenTherm thermostats to same boiler, as to which is best, not so sure, EvoHome has a thermostat which is a panel where you can set each room independent but OpenTherm is add on extra, Tado also has a system, not sure how that one works.

Back 10 years ago we would fit motorised valves as the boilers had no ebus option, and also would not fit TRV's in same room as the wall thermostat, but things have moved on, even in 2018 there was no Hive programmable TRV head, which is one reason I went for Nest not Hive, but things move on.

If you had the money there is nothing wrong with fitting iVector fan assisted radiators in every room, and you would not need a by-pass valve, or a motorised valve, the L1 statement is one persons interpretation of what is required, as with Part P electrical regulations the actual law does not say any such thing, it is written so it is flexible enough to cover different methods to get same result.

 

[Chris lowry]

Thanks for the replys folks, just installed the hive today initially with the current timer programmer remaining in situe just to establish if the hive would even work and it does providing I put it on permanently on. Going to now wire both recievers into where the time clock was to make it a neater job