Hive Wiring questions

[jigger121]

Hello all, was wondering if you would be able to help.
I have a gravity fed system with an oil boiler. I ordered the Hive hot water and Thermostat kit in the hope we don't have to turn on the heating just to get water.

Opened up the current controller where I was planning on putting the hive and think I might be missing a wire. I've attached a picture of the current wiring.

Centaur plus C17

According to hive manual the two neutral and two live are correct and I would remove the live to common. But there should be another wire for the hot water on?

Any help would be really appreciated.

 

[stem]

The Centaur plus C17 is just a single channel programmer, so as you have figured by the 'missing wire', there isn't a separate channel for controlling the hot water. It's just a single on/off timeswitch.

The term 'gravity' is used to describe the type of system where the hot water cylinder is heated by natural (gravity) circulation of hot water from the boiler, and only the central heating is pumped. If that is the case for you, then unfortunately you cannot have the central heating 'on' without the hot water also being 'on'. This is a restriction of the plumbing, changing the controls won't help.

However, some times people use the term 'gravity', because there are feed and expansion tanks in the loft. That's something different, and it may be possible to have separate control of the hot water. If this is the case, to assist further you would need to provide full details of your system, and all of its components. Is there a 3-port motorised valve? Two 2-port motorised valves, is there a thermostat strapped to the side of the hot water cylinder about one third of the way up from the bottom?

 

[jigger121]

I have a hot water tank in the attic, a water heater tank in the bathroom and then boiler out in the shed. I've attached pictures because you would definitely have a better idea than me mate.
Sorry for the idiocy lol

 

[stem]

The photos don't really help that much if afraid. It's impossible to see if the pump is circulating water around the hot water cylinder or not. However they don't show any of the crucial components such as a hot water cylinder thermostat or any motorised valves, so if they aren't there I'm afraid it's not looking good for the Hive as it stands. In which case to use it, you will need some plumbing modifications and the controls rewired from scratch.

 

[jigger121]

We have a a tank(bag) store in our bathroom. I always assumed this was seperate and just for immersion heating. Will I take a picture of this setup too? I couldn't find and port valves in the attic as well no thermostat. We don't even have room thermostats. I'm assuming that what I took pictures of is solely for cold water and all hot water is directed through the bathroom tank?
Sorry for being a pain and thanks for the help I really appreciate it

 

[jigger121]

Attached are pictures of what I've always assumed as solely for immersion heating

 

[stem]

Looking at the state of the photos I think the whole system needs replacing quite urgently. And it's certainly not able to provide independent control of the heating and hot water as it stands.

Here are the three most common types of system, yours is definately not a Y-Plan or S-Plan with motorised control valves controlled by room and cylinder thermostats, which you would need. The bottom one looks the most likely, and would require the modifications I mentioned before.

Y-Plan (One 3-Port Motorised Valve)

S-Plan (Two or More 2-Port Motorised Valves)

Gravity Circulation Hot Water & Pumped Central Heating (No motorised valves, hot water not pumped)

 

[jigger121]

Yes it seems like it is completely bodged. I will contact the landlord and make sure it gets sorted ASAP! Thank you for all your help

 

[stem]

Not necessarily bodged just very old. 50 years plus would be my guess. As you are a tenant, from 2018 landlords are required to make sure that their properties have an EPC [Energy Performance Certificate] with a rating of E or above and provide tenants with a copy of it. The heating system will have a major effect on the rating. What's your property rated at?

 

[jigger121]

We only moved in 3 years ago and were told it was a new boiler. Only replaced the burner a few months back too. The rating when we moved in was E51/C73 (CO2 E41/D64).

 

[ianmcd]

you can use the hive to control the heating if you want but you wont be able to control the HW with the hive

 

[jigger121]

Yea we can do the single channel setup which would be heating only, but we bought it so we didn't have to turn on heating for hot water unfortunately. Think we are going to have to get some modifications done to the very outdated system

 

[bernardgreen]

think we are going to have to get some modifications

Not modifications. Replacements. Any work on pipework connected to that corroded cylinder is likely to result in serious leaks if not failure of the cylinder.

 

[jigger121]

After checking on the register the epc expired in 2019. Should I contact them to get it updated?

 

[jigger121]

So will I contact my landlord and say the whole system needs replaced because the hot water cylinder is corroded, the system is over 50 years old and completely ineffectient. Cold water tank isn't secured and simply just sitting on bits of wood. And a 2 port valve needs to be installed and the energy performance certificate needs updated. Anything I've missed so I don't sound like an idiot on the phone? Thanks in advance