Honeywell motorised valve V4043H1106

[jcp]

Hi
Can anyone help me? The above numbered motorised valve in my heating system has stuck. It is the old style valve where the head unit cannot be changed (without obtaining some extra plate?). It probably dates from around 1983, so I was quite happy to buy a complete replacement valve. I hoped it would be a simple swap - avoiding any pipe cutting or extending.

The new valve has arrived, it has exactly the same part number (as above), but apart from having the replaceable head unit, it also has male threads for standard compression nuts/olives while the old valve seems to use female (internal) threaded fittings. The fixings includes "nuts", though these look more like a hollow bolts through which the connecting pipes pass, but the bolt heads look too small to incorporate an olive. How does it make a watertight seal between the valve body and the connecting pipes? Is there an olive at the bottom of the hole?

I cannot find a diagram of how such female fittings work. How far might the pipe connection project beyond the female fixings (nuts?), and might there be enough pipe there to make the connections with the new valve?

If the connecting pipes will need extending I will call in a proper plumber, but I would like to have some idea about this before I drain down the system and remove the old valve!

Hoping someone can help

John

 

[Dan Robinson]

Just change the innards

 

[jcp]

Thanks Dan, but will the plate & spindle from the new valve fit fully to the old valve housing? It looks smaller (without taking it apart). I had read somewhere that I would need an adaptor plate to marry new head unit to old valve housing.

There is another difference between my old and new valves - the head unit is installed 180 degrees in the opposite direction. That won't matter if I change the whole thing - I can mount the whole thing the other way about (the cable is long enough). Could probably mount just the head unit 180 degrees about, but not totally sure about that.

 

[fixitflav]

Hi
Can anyone help me? The above numbered motorised valve in my heating system has stuck. It is the old style valve where the head unit cannot be changed (without obtaining some extra plate?). It probably dates from around 1983, so I was quite happy to buy a complete replacement valve. I hoped it would be a simple swap - avoiding any pipe cutting or extending.

The new valve has arrived, it has exactly the same part number (as above), but apart from having the replaceable head unit, it also has male threads for standard compression nuts/olives while the old valve seems to use female (internal) threaded fittings. The fixings includes "nuts", though these look more like a hollow bolts through which the connecting pipes pass, but the bolt heads look too small to incorporate an olive. How does it make a watertight seal between the valve body and the connecting pipes? Is there an olive at the bottom of the hole?

I cannot find a diagram of how such female fittings work. How far might the pipe connection project beyond the female fixings (nuts?), and might there be enough pipe there to make the connections with the new valve?

If the connecting pipes will need extending I will call in a proper plumber, but I would like to have some idea about this before I drain down the system and remove the old valve!

Hoping someone can help

John

The valve was (and probably still is) supplied in 2 versions, one with 22mm compression fittings, the other threaded 3/4BSPF, which sounds like what you've got. I assume it has 3/4BSPM x 22mm compression adaptors. If so you can re-use them, or replace with new if you prefer.
A photo would help confirm.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I thought something was amiss yesterday. You have your part numbers wrong - or have been supplied the wrong one.

H1106 is 28mm compression
H1056 is 22mm compression
H1007 is ¾" BSP
H1080 is 1" BSP

I'm struggling to make sense of this:

it also has male threads for standard compression nuts/olives while the old valve seems to use female (internal) threaded fittings. The fixings includes "nuts", though these look more like a hollow bolts through which the connecting pipes pass,

More incorrect information:

The valve was (and probably still is) supplied in 2 versions

The valve is sold in 7 Versions.

 

[Dan Robinson]

If you think 7 is a lot, the VC series has 18 bodies and a choice of 24 different heads.

Not including 3 way valves of course.

 

[ollski]

The adaptor is just known as a ball and plate and then a standard 4043 actuator. Easy to do on bungs usually. I never change the o ring and never had one leak ever.

 

[fixitflav]

The valve is sold in 7 Versions.

OK I'll give you that. Before I got on the internet. I was referring to the 2 options the OP most likely has.

I'm struggling to make sense of this:

My guess is he means the new one has has 22mm compression. Perhaps he'll confirm. The length will be shorter than the original + 3/4" x 22mm adaptors (or 1" x 28mm adaptors, if such it be), so unlikely he can do a straight swap, but depending on the layout it might not be too hard to add a short length of pipe.

 

[jcp]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I am sorry to be so long replying, but I was out all day. Sorry too if I have not used the correct terminology.

Please also ignore my comments about the head unit on the new valve being the “other way about”. Where the old valve is, I cannot see by eye the flow direction arrows in the casting, and I was having “brain fade” in identifying the flow and return pipes.

I should also say that the old valve was already installed before we bought the house in 1986. During major building works in 1988, the boiler system (including this valve) was moved by professional plumbers employed by the builder. The valve is now about 40cm from the hot water cylinder (in the airing cupboard) along the 28mm gravity return pipe to the boiler (in the more distant kitchen). I needed a camera to read the valve part number V4043H1106 from the end of the head unit – with the extra characters H 8336 added in the bottom right hand corner.

The old valve has now stuck closed, and the manual override does not work. As the valve is over 30 years old, and valves with the same part numbers are still available, I decided to replace the whole valve “like for like”. But when the new valve arrived it had the identical part number but different pipe fittings.

I checked the mainly pictorial fitting instructions (left me by the previous owner) for the old valve, but missed one diagram that I now attach (much enlarged).

The top dotted box shows the fittings we have, as seen in the following picture.

This suggests the existing pipework can be used with the new valve fittings - shown below.

Would I be right to feel confident enough to draining the boiler system and removing the old valve?

Thanks for your help

John

 

[Dan Robinson]

You have bought a compression body. But you have a BSP valve installed .

This suggests the existing pipework can be used with the new valve fittings

No it doesn't.

Would I be right to feel confident enough to draining the boiler system and removing the old valve?

Based on the evidence above? Probably not. Sorry.

 

[Hot&Cold]

The above numbered motorised valve in my heating system has stuck.

is there another similar vintage zone valve on your system ? If so you might aswell get them all exchanged. Get a heating technician to do the work,think of it like some tlc for your heating in time for winter

 

[jcp]

Thanks again
No, there is only one motorised valve in my heating system. I might yet get a heating technician in, but I fear they could recommend multitude changes!
And with respect to Dan, yes I can see the original failed valve has different fittings - which is why I posted this thread in the first place. What I did was obtain a valve with the same part number as the original - so why is the original labelled H1106? Dan said a 1" BSP fitting version would be H1080.

New valve is correctly labelled.

Perhaps I can just change the innards as Dan first suggested.

Thanks

John

 

[fixitflav]

The old valve has now stuck closed, and the manual override does not work.

Are you sure it's the valve at fault, not the actuator? If you remove the actuator you should be able to tell. If it's the actuator you might be able to change that, perhaps needing the extra plate you referred to.
John[/QUOTE]
If it's the valve, most likely it needs renewing. Is there any reason you can't take it back and get one with the same fittings as the existing?
Your first pic is interesting. The one in the 1st dotted box is what you have now (I'd forgotten about that arrangement when I said you needed 1"BSP x 28mm compression adaptors with that type). The 2nd box shows compression fittings, like your new one. The 3rd box looks a bit like a tap connector, with flat faces and a rubber or fibre washer. I've never seen one like that (not that I've seen many) and it's not among the 7 varieties listed in the Honeywell literature I've found.
You or a plumber are going to have to remove the old one if you you need to replace it, and I'd get stuck in before the weather gets cold! If you can't get a replacement like the existing, it shouldn't be too much trouble for a plumber to mod the pipes to suit the new one you've got. It might be worth checking if you can get the existing type before starting, then if the old one comes out OK, you can go for that. But if there's a problem and the pipes have to be modded you can use the valve you've got. No point in exchanging it and then finding you need the compression type anyway!

 

[ollski]

Seriously now, bung the system, clean the sealing faces on the valve body, fit the ball and plate, wire in the new actuator and attach it and still have a few hours in the pub!

 

[jcp]

Hi
Just found I never updated on what happened.

As encouraged by Dan Robinson and Ollski, I was able to replace just the valve plate/actuator without needing an adaptor plate. Two bolts on the diagonal fixed the valve plate to the body, two further bolts fixed the motor casing through the plate. I only had to wait for a time when the wife wasn't around so I could drain the system!

Thanks all for your help
John