How do you test a door is sealed?

[r_c]

Our PVCu front door (installed 18 months ago) is not sealing and appears bowed. We informed the installer and he came round, accepted it was not sealed and made some adjustments. When he had completed the adjustments we could see that it was still not sealed. We tried to show it was not sealed by moving a piece of paper between the seal and the door - the reasoning being that if it was sealed then the paper would stick between the seal and the door and not move easily. However he dismissed this test and said "I cant see any of the white frame which is really the test that we use on these doors."

Is this really the test to prove a door is sealed? Surely there is a better test than this.

I have attached some photos taken at night which shows light coming through - the same spot where he refused to admit it was not sealed.

(I recently asked a question about this door, but mistakenly said the door was composite. I was wrong - it is a PVCu door.)

[GALLERY=media, 102515]Doorlight-closeup by r_c posted 1 Feb 2019 at 9:59 PM[/GALLERY][GALLERY=media, 102514]Doorlight by r_c posted 1 Feb 2019 at 9:59 PM[/GALLERY]

 

[Notch7]

One of the disadvantages of making things in bendy plastic......

I would get a straight edge and check the frame isnt fitted a bit bowed, in either direction.

Seals tend to lose their elasticity as a result of being squashed flat for 99% of the time.

I imagine the installer has adjusted the keeps to their limit.... so I doubt if theres anything can be done on that front.

The frame can be moved though

 

[ronniecabers]

Well , from those photos , its clearly not sealed!. One silly question though , and please don't think i'm treating you as stupid , but is the handle pulled up? A doors compression isn't complete until all the handle is up, locating all of the locking points top , middle and bottom ( door doesn't need to be locked , just handle pulled up) . I have spoken to a few manufactures about things like this over the years , and they always say that the biggest problem is installers don't tell the customer to pull the handle up EVERY time they go through it. When I asked why the manufacturers always say it is to top there being any chance of the door bowing in extremes of weather.

Looking at yours though , its either a bowed sash , or the frame isn't in correctly. As Notch says , a long level on the frame to check if there are any bows , and the same on the sash. As an installer I would be trying to correct that, as its clearly not right and regarding the paper test ... I have used that many times, paper should be hard to push between correctly sealed door gaskets

 

[KenGMac]

r_c, good evening.

Do you have some sort of a "Guarantee" with the door? if so invoke it.

The door or its frame is obviously warped, the paper test would float into that gap.

How about you send these images to the installer?

Ken.

 

[r_c]

One silly question though , and please don't think i'm treating you as stupid , but is the handle pulled up?

Fair question to ask, and interesting point about being the recommended state to be in. This particular door does not have a handle - it has a pull lock like this. When the door shuts, there is a hook at the top and one at the bottom that pop out and secure the door to the frame (along with the latch by the key). You can then turn the lock to double lock it (I think this is called a deadbolt?). We never had a problem with the 'latching' or locking until after the installer's visit on Thursday. He has actually made it worse.

regarding the paper test ... I have used that many times, paper should be hard to push between correctly sealed door gaskets

Thank you.

 

[r_c]

Do you have some sort of a "Guarantee" with the door? if so invoke it.

The door or its frame is obviously warped, the paper test would float into that gap.

How about you send these images to the installer?

We have sent the photo to the installer. That was taken the evening (or following evening) after he tinkered with it. But the installer says that it is not bowed. He also says that it's sealing. He refuses to budge and accept this. Door manufacturer says that warranty is via the installer. But if the installer refuses to accept there is a problem ... Where does that leave me?

Also, thank you for confirming knowledge of the paper test. Installer looked at me as if I was speaking another language when I mentioned the paper test. He said: "I cant see any of the white frame which is really the test that we use on these doors."

 

[KenGMac]

OK see what you mean about installer avoiding the issue, and the manufacturer could be considered to be correct in that when the product left the factory it was OK and it for purpose, what the installer did is out of the control of the makers, unless?? is the installer an "Accredited" fitter for the maker?

Are the Installer or maker on social media? a few posts on the respective web sites can get things moving???

Ken

 

[Upvccollect]

Whereabouts are you r_c ?if it’s local to me I don’t mind casting my eye over it. Seriously looks like they haven’t packed the frame level when fitting,common fault with ‘throw it in’ fitters and service engineers who don’t want to help