How to plan ahead during refurb

[u587162]

I've literally gutted out the whole house, walls, ceilings floors, everything.

Starting from a clean slate and as part of first fix come Oct, how best to provision everything now? These are my thoughts:

- 2 Cat 6e cables run to each room in the house using conduits with maybe a few more for main TVs / entertainment system

- Wired alarm and wired light sensors and wired Hix(?) CCTV sustem

- Neutral wiring between light switches and certain sockets (to allow for automated blinds etc)

- Relevant GU10 dimmers which take dimmable LEDs

- Phone and intercom system between room not yet decided

- appropriate Cat cable and phone and armoured cable to the garden for future provision

- Cental rack room for all cables, inc router, network switches, photne, CCTV, TV and media distribution point

I currently have a Fibaro top of the range home automation system as I wasn't planning to go down the Lutron route but I'm disliking Fibaro and thinking instead of Vera.

Any further comments to add? Anyone know what cable I should provision for an electronic gate before we build the drive?

 

[GalaxyGuy]

Best approach is to add decent sized conduit where you can. Technology will change over time, so you may want to be replacing with optical cables or some other format in 5yrs time. I have copper wiring now, but all the major routes have trunking to allow for additions or changes in the future.

I don't bother with the PSTN line past the broadband point now - just grew sick of nuisance calls, so removed the phones.

 

[u587162]

Best approach is to add decent sized conduit where you can.

I don't bother with the PSTN line past the broadband point now - just grew sick of nuisance calls, so removed the phones.

How is conduit size measured, what size or type do you recommend? Also are you supposed to leave the cables loose or tie them (I guess loose so that you can pull them through in the future if necessary right?) but if you put more than on cable in a conduit, cant they snag?

So you dont have any phones in your house because of nuisance calls? Bit drastic isnt it? There are better solutions out there than no landline.

 

[SimonH2]

Conduit sizing is "quite tricky" !
For going up walls, most commonly "white oval" is used - and it's sized by it's wider dimension (ie width). By the time you are up to 32 or 28mm then you can get say 4 or more TV coaxes down it - or some mix of coaxes, cat 5e/6, etc. Without connectors on.

If you want to get things like HDMI plugs through then you need something bigger. I've used 16x25 or 25x40 mini trunking in places - but you do need to watch how much you chase out of the walls to avoid affecting structural integrity.

EDIT - when fitting your backboxes, cut out the side so the trunking will come flush with the inside face. Don't do what most sparkies do and stop the conduit short of the box, needing a "dogleg" to get the cable between the end of the conduit and the hole (standard 20mm knockout) in the box.

 

[Sam Gangee]

Most people forget to fit wiring for the doorbell. When our children were young, I fitted an additional doorbell cable from a low-level button outside to a siren in their playroom. Don't forget that the unit needs a power source, too.

Then there's all the wiring for the photovoltaic-fed battery-inverter system, and the intercom from the kitchen to the TV room and den.

 

[u587162]

That's a good point, especially since I'll need a few of these door bells extended astounded the house as its larger than average.

But surely wireless is the way to go, since we're on the topic of automation and smart home etc.....or I guess it can do both

 

[SimonH2]

Wired is just about always more reliable than wireless.
If you have the option for wired then use it, wireless is a convenience but introduces scope for interference or security issues. Simple example, we have a wireless doorbell - it often goes off "on it's own" and we suspect there's another one in the street that's marginally within range and using the same code.

Same for computer networking - while they keep making WiFi better, wired is still both faster and more reliable. If you have a properly wired cable then you can get 100Mbps or 1000Mbps (depending on what each end is capable of) through it regardless of what else is happening on the network or what the neighbours are doing on their WiFi. Once you go to WiFi then while the latest "ac" (as in 802.11ac standard) can theoretically run at those sorts of speeds, in practice the spectrum is shared not only between your own devices, but also with all those around you who are using WiFi. When you see WiFi access points and routers advertised as doing "300Mbps" or "450Mbps" on the wireless - treat that like you'd treat the fuel consumption figures quoted by car manufacturers, except that the fuel consumption figures are far more accurate !

 

[u587162]

Thx Simon, yes that is also a good point and one I was planning for with eg wired alarms and Ethernet cables etc. Probably best to do the same with door bell. I presume you can get a wired version of a smart doorbell that also incorporates something like zWave so it can talk to my home automation system?

Sam,
What type of intercom system do you have installed? A simple jobbie or something quite fancy?

 

[Sam Gangee]

Ha ha, my intercom is about 25 years old.
It has many dents from occasions when I asked if dinner was ready - and it wasn't!

One thing you must consider is: what happens when there's a power cut? My neighbour had a motorised gate and wasn't able to exit the driveway during a power cut because there was no mechanical crank! (I think there was actually a manual release lever but he didn't know about it.)

So think about what will happen if you have no power. Which items are essential? How much power do they use? Can they run from a battery backup?

This is one reason that I changed to using a laptop computer instead of a tower. I also installed emergency lighting. Power cuts don't occur very often but they can be a pain. I also switched (excuse pun) to a gas oven. Everything I do now is designed to reduce the need for electricity. One day I might even be effectively "off the grid".

Another of my neighbours suffers from asthma and was frightened that she'd have an attack during a power cut. She uses a mains-powered nebuliser. I told her to buy a cheap 240v inverter that plugs into the car cigar lighter socket. She did and it works beautifully, so she feels more relaxed, which means she's less likely to suffer an asthma attack.

 

[SimonH2]

So think about what will happen if you have no power. Which items are essential? How much power do they use? Can they run from a battery backup?

On a "greenfield" install it may well be worth thinking about this and putting in some dedicated circuits - this may be just one circuit of sockets, or a complete separate CU, depending on requirements. Then these can be configured so they can be run from a UPS or generator if needed.

For example, given how "popular" combi boilers are, if you are in an area prone to power cuts it may be worth running the boiler from a UPS so you don't lose all your hot water and heating. Ditto your broadband router etc if you want to keep the internet on. Each person will have a different list of essentials.
If you put in dedicated circuits back to one place, you can run one modest sized UPS - to keep the router and boiler running for a few hours wouldn't need a big UPS.

Or, some people might prefer to just put a big changeover switch between the meter and CU so they can plug in the genny and run everything - with "manual load management" to avoid running large loads (washing machine, tumble drier, kettle) that would overload the genny.

Or some people might prefer to do both - UPS for key items, and facility to plug a genny in.

There isn't a right answer - just "what feels right for me".

Just don't use a "widowmaker" to connect a genny

 

[Jupiter01]

loving this forum!
I am also in the process of gutting out my home and hence, an opportune moment to make the necesary provision. Does anyone have any advice on AV? I would like to have ceiling mounted sspeakers spread across the house and then be able to control these through a mobile app and be able to play my TV, etc. through them.

 

[SimonH2]

The best advice I can give is to arrange that you can get at stuff later as things change.

Some simple things can make a big difference. For example, standard practice for sparkies seems to be to use conduit or capping only to hold the cables in place still the plasterer has covered them - and there'll be a gap between the end of the conduit and the backbox where teh cables a) have to dogleg to go through the hole in the backbox and b) are plastered in. While it takes a little longer (nibblers help), taking the conduit all the way into the box means cables can be pulled out and put back as required.
Doing the same with all the outlets for "AV & computer stuff" means you can pull cables out and replace them as/when technology changes.

Then think about access. For traditionally built houses, conduit will run either up or down from the sockets, and cables run under the ground floor, under the first floor, or in the loft. If you fit laminate flooring, then you've permanently closed off access to under that floor making future cabling changes "a lot harder" (it may involve cutting holes in the ceiling instead !).
On the other hand, making sure that there are floor boards that can be lifted fairly easily will help. Roll back the carpet, take the screws out, lift a section of board. Traditional boards (of the 6-9" solid wood variety) are best - just cut the tongue off one board and screw rather than nail it. Making sure it's not one long length the whole width of the room helps as that reduces the amount of stuff you have to move before you can get one section up. If you screw it's neighbours down as well, then they can be lifted if you want more working access - but they don't need their tongue or groove removing.
The large chipboard sheets are the worst, especially if glued - though there are tools for cutting a round access hole with a counterbored step, and plastic plugs to close the hole off again afterwards.

And while you have floorboards up, run a line of holes (in the correct permitted positions) along the joists to thread cables through. You'll need some for the electrics, but also allow for the computer and AV stuff. Don't do a small hole on the basis of "there's only 2 Cat5 cables to go through", it's a lot harder (well actually impractical) to enlarge them later with cables in situ - so you'll be making more holes later if you under size them. But don't go too big and weaken the joists too much !

 

[Adam182]

Just wondering how this refurb turned out? currently taking one on myself. Any advice?

 

[ericmark]

I have fitted so much redundant wiring, yes conduit good idea.

I had a fax machine, the early machines would disconnect the phones when a fax comes in so all internal phones were wired from the fax, I used 8 core alarm cable so used double phone sockets one direct and one vie fax machine, now whole lot redundant as no longer use fax and use cordless phones and the phone cable in the wall is picking up mains hum from next doors wall lights.

My son put a server in the loft and a LAN socket by every radiator to run the eTRV heads on each radiator, however you can't get hard wired heads they are all now wireless so again a load of redundant wiring.

I had a door bell with two wired door pushes different tune for back door worked well for years, can't buy replacement all wireless again so yet again redundant cables.

It is repeated again and again, coax for TV in every room from single Sky box, again all redundant.

Trunking and conduit is the way to go.

 

[SimonH2]

Trunking and conduit is the way to go.

Indeed.
And make sure that the conduit is usable - unlike the standard practices most sparkies use. Needs a bit of work, nibbling out the holes in the backboxes so the large white oval conduit will go right into the box.

Mind you, it doesn't help that newbuilds are effectively required to be unmaintainable due to things like having to use large sheets of flooring all fully glued so you can't just "lift a floor board" to access stuff