How would you rank sapele for front door usage?

[Dace]

Durability and longevity is the most important factor.
Cant see that much reliable info there on it.
My impression is it's just okish, thanks.

 

[just pumps]

Have bits of it scattered around the boat, think it is part of the mahogany family, certainly same graining and colour and a hard wood.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Have bits of it scattered around the boat, think it is part of the mahogany family, certainly same graining and colour and a hard wood.

Whilst sapele is often called African mahogany, and since WWII has been widely used as a mahogany substitute, it is a completely different genus, Entandrophragma, whereas true (i.e. South American) mahogany is genus Swietenia - both theses geni(?) are of the same family, Meliaceae, hence similarities in outward appearance. (And yes, I had to look that up to confirm I wasn't writing utter tosh as well as get the spellings right!)

Basically, sapele has all but replaced mahogany in most "mahogany" joinery and furniture products since WWII on the UK on the grounds of cost and availability. Sapele is more rowed with a greater chance of interlocked grain than real mahogany (which basically makes it more difficult to hand plane well). Sapele is still often used in high grade fire doors (as the veneered ply facings), including exterior grade doors where it is reasonably durable. Generally ranked as medium durability - so better than softwoods, not as good as oak, not a patch on teak or iroko

BTW products using it are often sold (mislabelled) as "mahogany" or "sapele mahogany", possibly in part because real South American mahogany is very difficult to find these days.

 

[JohnD]

If you're using it for a front door, it will presumably be stained or varnushed and it will need at least an open porch to protect it from the weather.

You are unlikely to find a solid one, most likely it will be "engineered" ( veneer glued to scraps of softwood or board formed into a slab )

 

[Dace]

If you're using it for a front door, it will presumably be stained or varnushed and it will need at least an open porch to protect it from the weather.

You are unlikely to find a solid one, most likely it will be "engineered" ( veneer glued to scraps of softwood or board formed into a slab )

Unfortunately this is all I have at the front now.

Whilst sapele is often called African mahogany, and since WWII has been widely used as a mahogany substitute, it is a completely different genus, Entandrophragma, whereas true (i.e. South American) mahogany is genus Swietenia - both theses geni(?) are of the same family, Meliaceae, hence similarities in outward appearance. (And yes, I had to look that up to confirm I wasn't writing utter tosh as well as get the spellings right!)

Basically, sapele has all but replaced mahogany in most "mahogany" joinery and furniture products since WWII on the UK on the grounds of cost and availability. Sapele is more rowed with a greater chance of interlocked grain than real mahogany (which basically makes it more difficult to hand plane well). Sapele is still often used in high grade fire doors (as the veneered ply facings), including exterior grade doors where it is reasonably durable. Generally ranked as medium durability - so better than softwoods, not as good as oak, not a patch on teak or iroko

BTW products using it are often sold (mislabelled) as "mahogany" or "sapele mahogany", possibly in part because real South American mahogany is very difficult to find these days.

Thanks, are there any upgrades to it in terms of durability/weathering that arnt hugely more expensive?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I don't think so. Basically, you need to maintain it, for example I know of a (very) pine front doors which are more than 100 years old, but they have been painted regularly

 

[Dace]

Cool, so as long as I give a new coat every few years I should be fine even with my crappy porch? Good to know, thanks.

 

[mrrusty]

If you are painting it I suggest Accoya. You'll pay for it, but once made it won't move at all, will be impervious to anything the elements can throw at it and nothing will eat it. Because it is so stable, paint finishes are very durable (to the extent that some of the specialist paint companies offer a 10-12 year guarantee on Accoya - you won't get that for DIY application though https://www.teknos.com/en-GB/indust...ing-systems/accoya-tricoya-exterior-coatings/ ) The only downside to Accoya for a door is that it is somewhat brittle. If you allow it to catch the wind and it binds up on the hinges hard, it could split (or so I have been told).

I've made a good few doors in Accoya now. If you are having it made it will add a bit to the price. Off the top of my head, without working it out, I reckon there will be about £250 of Accoya (at cost) in a single solid door

 

[Deleted member 174758]

@mrrusty - how do you rate Accoya against Teak or Iroko? More durable? Heavier? Lighter? More/less expensive?

 

[mrrusty]

Hi @JobAndKnock I don't have an opinion because I have never used either. I'm only a competent DIYer who has only ever made stuff for my own projects and a couple of mates. In the past I've used meranti, sapele, utile and of course white/red wood etc. However, I have used Accoya for a complete house of sash windows, single doors, french doors and have found it easy to machine (although it spelches easily, so spelch blocks are essential), and it just doesn't move. At all. They give it a 50 year above ground warranty which will see me out! https://www.accoya.com/uk/why-accoya/warranties/

I started using it for a sash windows project, and researched all the usual timbers until I discovered Accoya at a trade show and was "sold" on it. Besides being brittle, it's ugly (often grey with stain marks from the process).

I've been buying it from Arnold Laver at Manchester - they don't have their price list online so you have to ask for it. Last time I bought some it was about £2.5K m3 - a somewhat out of date price list below. I'm just about to buy some for another pair of french doors and window panels so we'll see how much it's gone up soon!

 

[JohnD]

Cool, so as long as I give a new coat every few years I should be fine even with my crappy porch? Good to know, thanks.

Paint is durable, but stain less so and varnish not.

Why would you buy sapele and paint it (especially if veneered)?