Internal door won't close fully

[henry1]

I've fitted a door but it meets some resistance when it's about to fully close.
There is a gap all around between door and frame when fully shut.
I think the resistance comes from the two hinge faces pressing on each other - I can see the hinge buckle where the pin is.

I initially didn't recess the hinges in the frame as the door was narrow enough to fit in the frame.
Then I thought I'd recess the top hinge first and see if the resistance decreases but it only got worse.
I don't know if it's because the door is now out of alignment or it's the bottom hinge that really needs recessing.
The way I see it is that by recessing the hinge, when the door is closed, the hinge faces will be further apart.

I'd rather have it confirmed here first before I mess about with it. It's a very heavy door and I spent a whole day fitting it, messing it up and bodging it.

More generally, what is the purpose of recessing hinges if there is enough space for them? Of course a tightly fitting door is better.

 

[screamer]

hinge bound, take the door off and dress the edge of the door on a wee angle, but leaving the outside edge the same size
Also, are the hinges checked into the door? they could be checked in too deep

the door should be something like this (picture exaggerated)

 

[big-all]

make shure the hinges are exactly in line
as in the centre off the top hinge and bottom hinge should line up exactly get a strait edge like a long spirit level at least 3 foot long with the door open a bit
hold the edge to line up with the hinge nuckle side [the round bit sticking out]touching the top and bottom off the hinge
hold it also on the front face off the nuckle
duplicate on the bottom hinge
if the strait edge is long enough to go between the hinges then stop 10mm or half an inch short off the other hinge so it gives a reading based on being supported at one end

if it doesnt point strait at the corrisponding edge on the other hinge it need packing out to line up

 

[henry1]

I will check tomorrow to see if the hinges are lined up.
This isn't a new door, I've taken it from another door frame where it was working perfectly well, and I took out the door with its hinges and didn't touch the hinges on the door at all.
So I would assume the hinges are in a straight line on the door and would therefore go on the frame in the same straight line.
The door frame where the door is now however is bowed outwards in the middle, and I packed out already the previous recesses I had made for the hinges. The bottom hinge is sitting slightly proud of the frame while I later cut a very slight recess (1mm deep?) for the top hinge which increased the resistance when closing.
Because of the middle bow, I think the hinges shouldn't be recessed as the door would hit the bow otherwise...

 

[big-all]

did you have to fill in the old screw holes or have to "encourage" the screws to go offline a bit to fit in ??

 

[lostinthelight]

Also make sure the screw heads are below or flush with the hinge face .

 

[henry1]

There are no old screw holes. Hinges on the door are left untouched, and screwed into another frame in a new place.
The old screw heads are slightly proud on the hinge face, which is what I think may be causing the problem and why I think by cutting out a recess, I'll give the hinge face more space in the closed position.
The strange thing is that the screws were also proud where the door was previously but they were not getting in the way.
I'd rather not touch those screws. They are slotted screws full of paint. I had to fight hard to remove the similar ones from the frame.

 

[screamer]

"I initially didn't recess the hinges in the frame as the door was narrow enough to fit in the frame.
Then I thought I'd recess the top hinge first and see if the resistance decreases but it only got worse."

This tells me that the door is hinge bound, this happens when the door hits the door post before the door is fully closed and wants to spring back open (hinges checked in too much or the door post bowed etc)
You've mentioned the door post being bowed in the middle, is this making the distance in the middle of the door smaller and effectively it want to pull the hinged off when closing the door?

some pictures would be good, not all close up, do some standing back so we can see the whole door

 

[big-all]

the screws are likly to be number 7s [4mm]the screw head must be flush or proud by less than 0.5mm to prevent grounding [heads clashing ] on cheaper hinges
so a number 8 or 4.5mm screws are too big

 

[henry1]

"I initially didn't recess the hinges in the frame as the door was narrow enough to fit in the frame.
Then I thought I'd recess the top hinge first and see if the resistance decreases but it only got worse."

This tells me that the door is hinge bound, this happens when the door hits the door post before the door is fully closed and wants to spring back open (hinges checked in too much or the door post bowed etc)
You've mentioned the door post being bowed in the middle, is this making the distance in the middle of the door smaller and effectively it want to pull the hinged off when closing the door?

some pictures would be good, not all close up, do some standing back so we can see the whole door

I will check but I'm pretty sure that when the door is forced closed, there is clearance all around, including between the door and the frame on the hinges side.

 

[screamer]

I will check but I'm pretty sure that when the door is forced closed, there is clearance all around, including between the door and the frame on the hinges side.

it may look like that from the outside, but what it's like on the other side, can you get a 2p coin all around it?

or of you have a piece of the thin banding thats used on parcels, try to run that around the door when closed, if it's runs around ok, then it's the hinges and you may have to taper check the edge of the leaf into the door post leaving the outside in live with the post

could also be the door is screwed too far to the stops and it's hitting the hinge side stop edge first

 

[henry1]

I checked and the hinges are slightly out of line of each other, by around 5 mm.
Sending some pics of the door - you can see the gap and daylight nearly all around. In the picture, the door seems to be touching in the middle where the bow is, on the hinge side. I can't remember now if there is actual contact or not.
I slipped a piece of plastic bag, so very thin, between door and hinge area and it was stuck in some places. I think I'll need to redo this test, it was done at the end, after spending over 2 hours on this door and I was fed up!

So I cut out a slight recess for the bottom hinge and at a slight angle such that the door would be angled towards the frame. The resistance decreased significantly but was still there on the last inch of closing the door.
This still bothered me so I spent the next hour and a half trying to figure out what was still blocking it.

You can see a picture of the hinge with a gap between it and the door, where it's supposed to be flush against the door. This is in the forced shut position. The gap disappears when the door is opened.
After I cut out the recess, this gap greatly decreased.
Trying to get rid of the resistance completely, I tried to cut the recess flat this time, rather than at an angle. No joy. Then packed some cardboard behind to recreate an even bigger angle. No improvement. Got rid of the packing.

I could see the two faces on the hinge pressing against each other when starting to close. This was not the case with the top hinge, so in desperation, I bent the hinge on the frame side slightly and now in the shut position, the faces are not touching anymore.
The door still wouldn't shut nicely. I could see some paint had disappeared on the old screw on the hinge, door side. I removed it. No success.

Looking from below, I could see the faces touching each other on the far side, away from the pivot point, and at the bottom. This is when I did the test with the plastic bag which was laying around.

So I think the hinge may need to be recessed further to prevent the faces touching at the bottom corner of the hinge. I'm not yet prepared to do that. It's going to move the hinge deeper in the frame and may tip the door out of alignment, causing it to scrape the floor.
Also, the bow in the middle may be behind the resistance - will need to investigate.
The hinges being out of alignment could also be behind this, but I didn't move the hinges on the door at all and this was how it was on its previous frame and hanging perfectly fine.

I've screwed and unscrewed that bottom hinge so many times that I've had to re-pack the screw holes twice already! Good thing that I used torx heads. They're still in great condition.

 

[RandomGrinch]

Hi,
This is a complete bodge, but may help!

...personally, I think I would replace those hinges.

 

[henry1]

That's what I did after seeing that video but it didn't help.

 

[big-all]

Hi,
This is a complete bodge, but may help!

...personally, I think I would replace those hinges.

mmm this is a " i am lacking in any basic ability" video and suggesting a bodge rather than a similar but more long winded pack it out here 0.5mm there 1mm twist it 1 degree here or move that screw 3mm there being the actual solution
understanding where the problem is is where the start should be
i suspect unwinding all the screws about half a turn to 3/4 would cure most problems but then move the problem then to a loose drooping door that rubs down towards the bottom and iin the top lock side ???

just do it as near to correct as you can and iff that fails ask again lol