Justice for all

P

pipme

Joined
24 Feb 2004
Messages
4,046
Reaction score
1
Location
Somerset
Country
United Kingdom
The law seems to regard theft of money more highly than loss of life.

Assaults also seem to be treated leniently unless the recipient is wearing a dark navy uniform.

I was assaulted in 1994 by someone whose last offence (before the one involving me) was hitting a copper. He was jailed by the court then, and told that his next assault offence would also land him in the clink.

What did he get for hitting me? 120hrs CS.

It was a nightmare. He was a next door neighbour of my sister. He terrorised her and her little girl of 6. Breaking windows, throwing lumps of concrete at her windscreen while she was reversing on the drive, puncturing tyres etc..

He was a council tenant, but in those days, ASBO's were non-existant, and MCC was just about beginning to draw up rules about anti-social council tenants. We went to the council every day almost, but they failed to move him. In the end, my sister moved, making a huge loss on the house.

I'm not blaming him entirely, but my sister is now an alcoholic, drinking at least three bottles of wine and two litres of cider every day without fail.
She also smokes at least 40 a day.

Her daughter is now a cutter, and wishes she was dead.

Tragic.
 
securespark....what a sad and depressing story, I do hope your sister manages to overcome her problems. The trouble is the the whole family are now victims. I wouldn't put to much faith in MCC. What is a cutter?

I think the establishment see it as a crime against them and always take a hard line. The train robbers and brinks mat are good examples of this.

On the other hand you have the judge this week found with hundreds of porn images of young boys. A spokesman said he as suffered because of his shame and of having to sign the sex offenders register. He is out on unconditional bail though apparently.

We hear about these double standards everyday ,the establishment ignore the public and view us as ignorant I reckon.
 
david and julie said:
securespark....what a sad and depressing story, I do hope your sister manages to overcome her problems. The trouble is the the whole family are now victims. I wouldn't put to much faith in MCC. What is a cutter?

I think the establishment see it as a crime against them and always take a hard line. The train robbers and brinks mat are good examples of this.

On the other hand you have the judge this week found with hundreds of **** images of young boys. A spokesman said he as suffered because of his shame and of having to sign the sex offenders register. He is out on unconditional bail though apparently.

We hear about these double standards everyday ,the establishment ignore the public and view us as ignorant I reckon.
Click to expand...
cutter is another term for self mutilator.
 
Yes, that's right. She cuts herself with anything she can lay her hands on. It's an extremely deep-rooted psychological problem. She feels that she has pain and hurt and anguish deep inside her body and the only way for her to let it out is to bleed - she feels at peace with the world when she cuts, but it does not last long until she has to do it again.
 
david and julie said:
On the other hand you have the judge this week found with hundreds of **** images of young boys. A spokesman said he as suffered because of his shame and of having to sign the sex offenders register. He is out on unconditional bail though apparently.
Click to expand...

Yes, and he was retired off due to 'ill health' with full pension intact!
 
I am fortunate enough not to have encountered anything so damaging as Simon's family.

However, my grandfather, a sweet old man of 84, a widower, was on his way out in the car. He got to the car and what did he find? Every single panel on the car (and I mean EVERY panel) had been keyed so deeply that there was a gouge. A brick had gone through the side window, another brick had bounced off the windscreen and landed on the bonnet.

What it turned out to be was that his next door neighbour but one was a bit of a "problem family". Their psychotic teenage daughter had been playing truant regularly and someone had reported her. Now, instead of accepting the blame for her wrongs she decided to take it out on whoever she thought had reported her. So she picked possibly the weakest target, the old man on his own, and by smashing up his car she took away his mobility and his freedom. The damage was so bad that the insurance assessor said that he should write it off as the repair costs would probably be greater than the value (but being a nice bloke approved repair.)

Anyway, it was actually a different neighbour who reported this hell-scum.

My grandad was so distraught and depressed after the whole affair that even my mother wanted to send me round with my brother and my dad to "talk" to the family somewhat "percussively", and my mother is a very peaceful lady! But, we realised that would ruin any chance of legal charges and almost certainly land us in a lot of trouble.

Where did it get us? Nowhere. The girl is too young for the courts to bother with, and her family are apathetic as to their spawn. And what would I have gained by going round there? About 5 or 6 different charges and a criminal record, which comes with a distinct lack of current job or any future career prospects.
 
securespark said:
I was assaulted in 1994 by someone whose last offence (before the one involving me) was hitting a copper. He was jailed by the court then, and told that his next assault offence would also land him in the clink.
Click to expand...

I always feel miffed about this. I reckon that the crime of assaulting/murdering a police officer is as high as that of the same crimes to the general public, no higher.

I have great respect for the police who are out there tackling criminals and keeping the peace on a Friday night. However, if I am walking through a town centre at 2am on a Saturday and someone comes along and randomly punches me in the face, the Police will do little about it. They would let me file a report but would tell me "I doubt it would do any good, mind.".

What would happen if that person then went on to punch a random police officer in the face? The whole patrol would be out looking for the culprit. Truncheons, pepper spray, bundled into the meat wagon and charged.

What's the difference? The Police have been trained in what to do in these situations, the officers went out that night effectively looking for trouble (in order to remove that trouble) so are well aware that every now and again they will sustain injury. It is a hazard of the job. No-one becomes a policeman thinking that it is all flower arranging and cycling proficiency. However, I would be there just trying to get home. I have no radio for back-up. I have no team to rely on to search high and low and slap cuffs on this man. If I get a smashed up face then my work insurance doesn't cover the plastic surgery bills to make me pretty again, as I am not at work.

I would be interested to hear a Police officer's view on this, whether they are for the stronger sentencing of offences against police or if they think a crime is a crime, no matter who it is against?
 
With regard to your Grandad, I can sympathise with you there, Adam, and I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments about the force.

It is a ridiculous situation whereby youngsters effectively get away (in some cases literally) with murder.

My feelings are split: either the kids should be held accountable - if they can do the crime, I feel in 99% of cases, they should accept a punishment for it. Otherwise, the parents should be accountable. This sounds harsh, but I feel there has to be a change in the law, or the situation will get desperate.

I mean, I was born in 1966. In the 70's, the naughtiest thing I did was ring some old dear's doorbell and run away. And I got clouted by the Bobby for doing it.

For as long as I can remember, I have been taught right from wrong. From a very early age I knew not to touch people's cars, that if I found property or money in the street to hand it in, etc...I ws taught respect for people and their property. There is NONE of that now, it seems. Young people don't have any respect, they don't care.

I went to Tesco about a year ago and happened to recognise a car that belonged to a neighbour of my Mum's. When I got back, there were some young British Gas salespeople SITTING on the bonnet. So I told them to sling their hooks, that it wasn't their car to sit on and how dare they? Well, imagine their response. The air was blue. And they didn't care that they were wearing the uniform of a blue chip company and giving them a bad name.

Generally, over the last X years, it seems to me that crime has ballooned. I know modern media mean that crimes are more often reported than, say in the 1920's, but nevertheless, I feel that it has increased dramatically. And I'm sure that with each successive generation things are slipping even further into decline. This is a blanket statement, and there are still far more good people in the world than bad (thank g*d), but I'm convinced that there will come a time when the people will demand a change in law to protect themselves and their property. Don't get me wrong, I'm an optimist, not a pessimist, and this process will take a very long time, but I think it will eventually come.

I am making sure that I bring up my sons exactly as I was. I am determined not to be ultra-strict (my grandparents and mother were not), but I want to firmly imbue my boys with the same sense of respect, responsibility and citizenship that I was.

But is it all the fault of the parents? That is a question with very deep and wide-ranging answers I'm sure, and we could probably fill all of cyberspace with our opinions on the matter...


Onto the Police. Yes, I feel the same way. An assault is an assault, a life is a life. But there is definitely more value placed on a policeman (or woman's) head. I'll do a bit of research to try and find out why.

The most obvious thing I can think of now is that the Police are there to uphold law and if they are bashed on the bonce, they can't. If you know what I mean!

I haven't yet found any points of law on the assault of police, but have found this: how strange...

This case ([1983] 76 Crim App Rep 234 DC) demonstrates that although assault is normally taken to imply a threat of immediate violence, the term `immediate' can be interpreted liberally. In this case the accused Smith was convicted of an assault by virtue of staring at a woman through a window. Even though there was no evidence that he intended to enter the premises, his actions were considered to be a sufficient cause of an apprehension of violence to sustain a conviction for assault.
 
Fortunately it is a small minority of people who are to blame. I really don't know if there has been steady moral decline over the years, at 23 I haven't seen enough of them to judge yet!

I am quite lucky that in my area the families seem very wholesome and the kids play nicely in the street and keep the ball away from the cars (at least when I am out washing it!)

I disagree with a lot of the hysteria about single mothers and the like being the problem. My ex is doing a cracking job of bringing up her daughter (not mine!).

So the problem must lie deeper. Perhaps it is just because people now are less "proud" and so will take the easiest way out wherever possible. It is easier to ignore their offspring being brought home by the Police. It is easier to deny any responsibility for what their offspring do.

Now, if you take a dog for a walk, and it poos on the pavement, you pick it up. If it mauls a sheep, you pay for that sheep (and the cartridge the farmer used to shoot Shep!). You are responsible for the dog even if it slips it's leash, as it does not have a fully-rounded concept of right and wrong, or what is acceptable. This is the same of children and teenagers. Parents are there to teach them. If they won't teach, they should be forced to take responsibility for the results.

But where does it end? If the kid is troubled at 14 and you lock up the parent, is the parent still responsible when due to the same lack of parenting they turn 21 and kill someone? :?:
 
Legally parental responsibilty must stop at some point. Is it 16, 18 or 21?

Not sure.

Whatever the age, yes it's a tricky one. The offspring must take responsibilty for its own actions at some point in it's life.

You cannot blame others for your own situation all your life (although my sister tries very hard to!)

You have to take responsibilty for the direction of your life and pull yourself out of the sh*tpit.

Think positive and say, OK life has dealt me a bum hand, but this is not going to stop me. I'm going to make the best I can of my life from now on and I'm going to start today...
 
Some pretty sad stuff coming back here, feel very sorry about it all.

I remember a lawyer being quizzed about Police responses, "Why do they turn out smartly for a robbery at the local Building Society but not when I am burgled ?"
His reply was that Financial institutions possessed a large political lobby and that gave them the clout, he advised people to start lobby groups ???
I thought that's what voting and supporting a political party was about.

Just watch the business about drinking 'all hours' .... We all know it is a crap idea .... The police are against it, as are people living in the vicinity of such pubs and clubs, I am sure .... So why and how can this progress ? The Brewers have a powerful lobby and I have been reading about Lawyers acting for the proprietors of such establishments travelling the country taking on local councils and winning appeals over late opening hours .... too much financial backing for the normal council to compete against ... apparently. Then the law itself which allows this is ridiculous surely?
Let us not mention gambling laws, casino etc ... Have we not been here before ?

P
 
Hence, I imagine, 'joyriding' not seen as car theft.

``A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it''

So, nick a floppy disc or so from work, store it in your briefcase ???

Nick a pencil 'taking and writing away' ? .... yes I know the lead used is not returned ... neither are several benefits of a decent car following joy-riding ...

P
 
I had a stint as a metropolitan police engineer years ago so i got to see them from the inside.
The way they'd go over the top with presence when the incident was high profile, covered by the media but had a couldn't care less attitude to the mundane everyday incidents that generate no public interest.
At the high profile events they can justify sending in loads of coppers as they can claim back the cost of the massive overtime bill.
The recent case of hit and run is a prime example where they closed off the motorway causing mayhem to businesses, transport etc (are they going to foot the bill for loss of business!) because it was one of their own that was involved, how long before they'd get the traffic moving again had it been a member of the public?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top