Landlord doing own non-notifiable work

[edlewis]

Hi everyone,

I've got a flat with electrical heating and hot water. The timer on the immersion heater is a Greenbrook T106-C (http://www.greenbrook.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=T106-C) and has become faulty. I need to do a like for like replacement. 10 minute job.

I do a lot of my own electrical work (lighting, fused spurs etc) limited to minor non-notifiable work, so this is entirely within my skill set to do this safely.

But if I was to do so myself, would this be legal as the flat is rented? I understand that I am responsible for ensuring the flat's electrics are safe, and I would be happy doing the work, taking photos of it, and standing in court defending the work as safe if it came to it...

But..
- do I need an electrician to do the work?
- if not, and I do it myself, do I need an electrician to inspect it and issue a MWC?

 

[Jackrae]

First question would be "why are you responsible for ensuring the flat's electrics are safe"
Surely your limit of responsibility is to avoid doing anything irresponsible
and if you feel so inclined, why not just do the job and say nowt

 

[diyer56]

First question would be "why are you responsible for ensuring the flat's electrics are safe"

I assumed the OP is the landlord and therefore it was his responsibility.

"Landlords have a legal duty to ensure that their rental property, and any electrical equipment provided, is safe before a tenancy begins and throughout its duration."

 

[Jackrae]

I assumed the OP is the landlord and therefore it was his responsibility.

Doh ! Bl**dy obvious now you mention it, pity the OP didn't

 

[EFLImpudence]

- do I need an electrician to do the work?

Not legally but you must do it to the same rules and regulations.
Plus you would be responsible if anything goes wrong.

- if not, and I do it myself, do I need an electrician to inspect it and issue a MWC?

There should be testing otherwise you will not know if anything is wrong so probably a yes.
To inspect and test and issue a certificate it would be necessary to start again so not really any point you doing it.

Or - buy the proper equipment and learn to do it and record the details yourself.

 

[edlewis]

Thanks for your posts, yes sorry I hadn't made clear it is my flat.

If the testing is compulsory then I guess I'll go down the electrician route, but here's the bit that confuses me: I know plenty of DIYers who will add a fused spur, replace some downlights, wire a plug, and none of them have any testing equipment, but they would be confident of a safe installation because they've specced and wired everything correctly

 

[Spark123]

In an upshot it is just carrying out maintenance work, you can use a MWC if you wish which is up to you. To me I wouldn't bother and just prove the circuit is earthed properly afterwards.

 

[EFLImpudence]

If the testing is compulsory then I guess I'll go down the electrician route,

Well, not much is actually compulsory.

but here's the bit that confuses me: I know plenty of DIYers who will add a fused spur, replace some downlights, wire a plug, and none of them have any testing equipment,

That's up to them but you have a duty of care to the tenants.

but they would be confident of a safe installation because they've specced and wired everything correctly

They may be confident but they don't actually know.

For an immersion timer you may be confident that you have wired it the same as it was -
but how do you know it was correct before?
L & N or N & E may be reversed or the earth may not go anywhere..

 

[edlewis]

I guess I'm feeling confident as the flat was new before (3yrs old) and it's a straight replacement.

But appreciate the points made, I take the responsibility seriously, I just want to avoid the £150+VAT ph electrician who wants that for a 20 minute job.

One random question though - if I did the work myself, and then same day had an electrician do a full test of the flat's electrics (as per the 5yr recommended inspection interval), would that normally be sufficiently detailed to verify there were no faults with my install and check the whole flat over in the process? I'm not too sure what these 'standard inspections' involve.

 

[JohnW2]

... but here's the bit that confuses me: I know plenty of DIYers who will add a fused spur, replace some downlights, wire a plug, and none of them have any testing equipment, but they would be confident of a safe installation because they've specced and wired everything correctly

Most electrical DIYers probably come into that category, but that confidence could occasionally be misplaced. Even highly qualified, competent and experienced electricians will sometimes encounter surprises, or make mistakes, and only proper testing will reveal that. Yes, I'm talking about pretty rare 'exceptions', so one will nearly always 'get away with it' - but 'nearly always', and not 'always'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But if I was to do so myself, would this be legal as the flat is rented? I understand that I am responsible for ensuring the flat's electrics are safe, and I would be happy doing the work, taking photos of it, and standing in court defending the work as safe if it came to it...

Does your landlord liability insurance policy have anything to say on the matter?

 

[edlewis]

Does your landlord liability insurance policy have anything to say on the matter?

Good question, mine only has:

All gas and electric appliances and installations at the insured property must be regularly inspected by you or a responsible person acting on your behalf as required by the appropriate legislation and repaired, replaced, maintained or serviced as necessary to ensure good order. A record of such inspections/work undertaken should be kept, so as to produce to the insurers upon request.

So I don't think that affects this.

Now I think about it, I did some other minor non-notifiable works ages ago, well before I rented the flat. So perhaps I should just get an electrician in to do a routine 5yr test of the whole flat. In that case, if it's going to be tested, there's no harm in me replacing this broken timer before that is there?

 

[EFLImpudence]

All gas and electric appliances and installations at the insured property must be regularly inspected by you or a responsible person acting on your behalf as required by the appropriate legislation and repaired, replaced, maintained or serviced as necessary to ensure good order. A record of such inspections/work undertaken should be kept, so as to produce to the insurers upon request.

There you go.

 

[edlewis]

There you go

Yep, so I guess I need to be careful not to cock anything up and if I did, I must accept it has an insurance impact.

Would a routine test of the flat's electrics by a qualified electrician verify that I had wired the timer correctly? That seems like a way of making sure everything is inline with legislation and the insurance requirement too? I've no idea what these tests involve?

 

[Risteard]

There you go

Yep, so I guess I need to be careful not to cock anything up and if I did, I must accept it has an insurance impact.

Would a routine test of the flat's electrics by a qualified electrician verify that I had wired the timer correctly? That seems like a way of making sure everything is inline with legislation and the insurance requirement too? I've no idea what these tests involve?

No. A periodic inspection is not the same as initial verification of work, so there is no guarantee that it will find a fault, and furthermore it certainly will not act as certification for your work.

It is merely a report on the condition of the electrical installation.