LVT tiles gone wrong, how to prep for ceramic..?

[robodelfy]

I just had a guy lay LVT tiles in my 3sqm bathroom. I prepped the floor a bit, and he said it would be fine. He laid 6mm ply and then the LVT tiles, and you could see all kinds of lumps and bumps. I complained that it was his job to deal with the sub floor or at least not tell me its fine when it wasn't

Anyway we called it quits, and I spent today ripping up his job.

I now would like to go with ceramic tiles, as I've found some at a decent price which I prefer.

Currently the floor is the old floor boards, a few which I've replaced, and I patched in a section with some ply. My plan was to plane down some high points, and then use 12 or 15mm ply over the whole floor, ready for tiles.

Will that be enough, or do I need to use self levelling compound or something else? I have no idea how good it has to be for ceramic tiles. The tiles I'm looking at appear to be 60cm by 60cm, the design making it look like smaller tiles

Thanks

 

[JaimieH]

First thing is to make sure the floor is deflection free, if it feels like it flexes then you need to strengthen by adding noggings between the joists. Overboard the floor with construction boards such as Marmox, Jackoboard, STS, Q-board (min 10mm) or cement based tile backer board such as Hardibacker or No More Ply (min 6mm). Don't use ply as being wood it can be affected by moisture. Just follow the instructions of the boards you choose and make sure you use a flexible cement based adhesive. Self leveller shouldn't be needed over the boards but your trowel size is important. For that size tile use either a 12mm square notch or a 20mm u notch trowel and back skim every tile before laying. Good luck.

 

[robodelfy]

First thing is to make sure the floor is deflection free, if it feels like it flexes then you need to strengthen by adding noggings between the joists. Overboard the floor with construction boards such as Marmox, Jackoboard, STS, Q-board (min 10mm) or cement based tile backer board such as Hardibacker or No More Ply (min 6mm). Don't use ply as being wood it can be affected by moisture. Just follow the instructions of the boards you choose and make sure you use a flexible cement based adhesive. Self leveller shouldn't be needed over the boards but your trowel size is important. For that size tile use either a 12mm square notch or a 20mm u notch trowel and back skim every tile before laying. Good luck.

Thanks for the advice. Yes I only found out about cement based backing board today. That seems ideal, and doesn't raise the floor as much.

The new tiles I'm using are much smaller, about 20x20cm. Any reccomendations for that and the trowel?

One concern I have is how to make my life less difficult in how ever many years when I might want to rip these tiles up. The ones I just ripped up took two days, it's was a nightmare!

Any tips on that? Are you saying I need use flexible adhesive to stick the cement board to the current floorboards, as well as screwing? How bad is it oneIone day when I want to change the tiles

Thanks again

 

[JaimieH]

I'd probably opt for a 10mm square notch for that size tile, it all depends how flat your floor is. Flexible adhesive has to be used under Hardibacker as well as screws, No More Ply uses their Mega Adhesive as well as screws. The Mega Adhesive is also used to bond the edges of adjoining boards together whereas Hardibacker needs alkali resistant mesh tape over the joints. If you're worried about taking it back up again in a few years time have you thought about a vinyl laminate floor, they're easy to fit and will come up easily as they're a floating floor.

 

[robodelfy]

I'd probably opt for a 10mm square notch for that size tile, it all depends how flat your floor is. Flexible adhesive has to be used under Hardibacker as well as screws, No More Ply uses their Mega Adhesive as well as screws. The Mega Adhesive is also used to bond the edges of adjoining boards together whereas Hardibacker needs alkali resistant mesh tape over the joints. If you're worried about taking it back up again in a few years time have you thought about a vinyl laminate floor, they're easy to fit and will come up easily as they're a floating floor.

Thanks, I'll look in to that.

I've had to deal with taking off tiles in a few places, and its been a mixed bag. Some have come of very easily and its not been a huge hassle. Some were near impossible to get up, and ended up either ripping up the ply below in places, or leaving lots of adhesive on the ply. Both of these areas the tiles have been on for 20 years or so, so I'm just wondering why such a huge difference!

I don't want a floor that's not properly adhered, but also don't want an impossible job down the line to remove them, as I'll live here for a long time

 

[foxhole]

You need an upstand at the end of the bath, hope you are not trying to tile level to it.

 

[robodelfy]

You need an upstand at the end of the bath, hope you are not trying to tile level to it.

Sorry what do you mean an upstand? The bath is not level yet, its not fixed in, and neither is that end bit under the boiler. It's all loose-ish for now

 

[foxhole]

Sorry what do you mean an upstand? The bath is not level yet, its not fixed in, and neither is that end bit under the boiler. It's all loose-ish for now

The end of the bath needs a vertical surface to tile to.

 

[robodelfy]

The end of the bath needs a vertical surface to tile to.

I see. It was fed level before at the far end, otherwise there would be quite a lot.of.wasted space and would be impossible to get to the boiler controls.

It was never a problem in the past, as the flat surface was tiled and siliconed, and slightly angle for any water to go back in the bath.

But this is just how it was done before. Maybe there's a better way

 

[Gasguru]

Create a completely square framework and then pack it out at floor level to get it horizontal ie. don't try and fabricate it to cope with floor levels etc.
Then your tiling/bath sealant will be easier....

 

[robodelfy]

Create a completely square framework and then pack it out at floor level to get it horizontal ie. don't try and fabricate it to cope with floor levels etc.
Then your tiling/bath sealant will be easier....

View attachment 196709 View attachment 196710

Ah ok, I was just putting one leg on the corner and it's attached on battens on the wall. Seems strong enough. But I can see a square box would be more solid

 

[Gasguru]

It's to allow the sealant to go between the bath edge and a vertical tile face....there's nothing worse than seeing a bodge job of 1/2 inch sealant bead between horizontal tiles and the bath edge.

 

[robodelfy]

It's to allow the sealant to go between the bath edge and a vertical tile face....there's nothing worse than seeing a bodge job of 1/2 inch sealant bead between horizontal tiles and the bath edge.

Sorry maybe I misunderstood to start with. You mean create a frame for the whole bath? Not just the box at the end? I was thinking the bath feet seem pretty pathetic, and didn't seem like they would ever feel very solid. So do you mean a wooden frame around the whole rim of the bath, but remove the legs that came with it? My old steel bath was much better than this acrylic one!

 

[Gasguru]

No just a frame at the end of the bath...it depends how easy it is to get perfectly true tiling surfaces.
I'm suggesting it's often easier to knock up a framework box and then adjust in place with packers (then fix to the wall/floor) rather than fixing bits of wood to uneven walls and flooring.

The point being the end of the bath should abut a vertical tile face to give a nice sealant bead (and the overall look is better).

I've never installed an acrylic bath, always metal from Kalderwei or Bette.

 

[robodelfy]

No just a frame at the end of the bath...it depends how easy it is to get perfectly true tiling surfaces.
I'm suggesting it's often easier to knock up a framework box and then adjust in place with packers (then fix to the wall/floor) rather than fixing bits of wood to uneven walls and flooring.

The point being the end of the bath should abut a vertical tile face to give a nice sealant bead (and the overall look is better).

I've never installed an acrylic bath, always metal from Kalderwei or Bette.

I see thanks. The bath in the photo you posted looks like it does have a whole wooden frame for it, which actually seems like a good idea. Th legs that came with my bath feel pathetic. And I really wouldn't recommend an acrylic bath. I can't afford to get a steel one and waste this one now, but next time it will be steel. You can feel the sides flex on the acrylic, and it just feels cheap. But on the plus side it's not cold!