Making non compliant garden room compliant to building regs?

[jocollett]

A problem.

We recently bought a house with a structure built on the back that could loosely be described as a garden room. We would like to make it building regs compliant without having to rebuild and wondered if this was possible.

The main problem is that the windows (non safety single glazed) cover much less than 50% of the wall area and therefore it can't be classed as a conservatory/garden room. Other problems include insulation - has solid brick wall with no cavity, sagging tiled roof and a cemented shut sewer inspection cover in the floor.

Not sure if the only way to keep it is to class it as an extension (due to window coverage), fit safety glass, fix roof, get double sealed drain cover and insulate the walls and then apply for retrospective planning permission.

The thing is I don't want to do all this and then risk not getting the PP. Would i need to get an inspector out first, and if i did would they just tell me to demolish it?

Can anyone help?

 

[jeds]

Planning permission and building regulations are two different things. You may or may not need planning permission but if the building has been there longer than 4 years you do not. If you want to comply with building regulations you would need to make an apllication and carry out upgrading works. If you make a full plans application the specification would be approved before you start work so as long as you followed the spec you would get your final certificate. Sounds to me like you will need help with this.

 

[Richard C]

If it’s largely a non compliant structure (as it sounds) it may well be cheaper & less problematic to pull it down & start again rather than attempt to make it B Regs. compliant. The roof, windows, wall insulation & services are all be relatively straight forward (if not expensive) to sort out but the biggest problems are likely to be with upgrading the floor insulation & the suitablility/depth of the current foundations.

Weather or not you requiring PP or BR’s depends on what you want; a proper extension (a garden room is classed the same), which does or a conservatory which generally doesn’t require either as long as it complies with certain criteria. Remaining personal development rights, the size, location & other local factors will influence the need &/or success of any planning application; it may pay you to have a chat & sound out your local planning office before you decide the best way forward.

 

[jocollett]

Thanks for your advice John and Richard, it's really helpful. Looking at the age of the structure I would say it has easily been there for over 4 years. We would prefer to have a garden room rather than a conservatory but it will ultimately depend on cost.

It would be great if we could have a structure halfway between a conservatory and an extension. Something that isn't 50% windows but is still disconnected from the house by an exterior door, and therefore needing to be less well insulated.

I think we will work out how much cash we have left after renovating the rest of the house and then decide. Either way I think it will probably be cheaper, if not a lot less hassle, to start from scratch.

 

[Richard C]

It would be great if we could have a structure halfway between a conservatory and an extension. Something that isn't 50% windows but is still disconnected from the house by an exterior door, and therefore needing to be less well insulated.

It BR terms there is no such thing. If the structure is attached to the property, is not a porch & doesn’t meet the glazing (& other) criteria for a conservatory then it becomes an extension & must comply with all relevant BR’s (not just insulation), regardless of weather or not it can be closed off by an exterior door.

As I said before, a garden room with a roof is effectively an extension.

 

[jocollett]

Thanks Richard. Do you know if building control or anyone else could demand that I take the structure down?

I'm half considering repairing the roof and replacing the glass and keeping it.

 

[jocollett]

Just had a look here regarding enforced demolishing.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Planning/BuildingRegulations/DG_4001372

It would seem due to the length of time since the structure was built they can't enforce section 35 or 36 of the building act, but they do have the right to apply to the courts for an injunction to allow them to do the same. I have a feeling that if I the structure is safe then they wouldn't do this.

 

[Richard C]

If it’s been there for a considerable length of time, who’s to say it didn’t comply with whatever regs. were in place at the time it was built. It’s highly unlikely that LABC would force you to take it down unless it’s dangerous & they won’t even know about it unless a nosey neighbour shops you making repairs, you tell them what your doing or have a Building Inspection done on new work to the property in the future.

Necessary maintenance does not come under Building Regulations but definitions can be a bit woolly as to where minor building works & maintenance become significant to the point where the structure is changed to a degree that it must be brought up to current standards. Problems arise when you start to replace complete glazing units/doors rather than just the glass or repair sections of the original frames or replace the roof rather than repair the existing as these are covered specifically. It can be a minefield for property renovations if they affect more than 24% of a thermal element of the building & many (including a few on this forum) have landed themselves with a huge BR headache & a hefty upgrade bill just by removing all the old internal plaster/external render from the walls & getting found out when a BI visits to inspect other works!

 

[powerpainter]

I think the real issue here is wether you want to have a real garden room with normal house heating, or just make do with what you have. I have just completed a fantastic garden room and I have to say that it is a wonderful addition to the house, but it was expensive. It has triple glazed vertical glass, double glazed roof glass and 90 mm floor insulation, with insulated cavity walls; but even then, I have had to improve the insulation of the rest of the house and install a new boiler, to get BR approval.

I believe that the present BR are going to have a major influence on conservatory design: either they will have to be separated from the rest of the house with full insulated doors between and no installed heating, or its going to have to be the kind of design that I now have.

 

[Richard C]

I believe that the present BR are going to have a major influence on conservatory design: either they will have to be separated from the rest of the house with full insulated doors between and no installed heating, or its going to have to be the kind of design that I now have.

That is, more or less, the case within current BR's; it's been talked about for a few years now but I believe Cons will, eventually, be fully integrated into BR's which will inevitable mean they will become more expensive.

I do agree with your comments on the garden room; if you want all year round use it really is the only way to go but, as you’ve discovered, it's not cheap!

 

[jocollett]

We would like a proper garden room but I don't think we will have the money to build it until perhaps we are ready to move again. I think it may make more sense repair it as best we can, happily live with it and hope it doesn't cause too much trouble when we sell. A conservatory would be a good option too but the height of the kitchen window and back door, at over 9' from the ground would make it difficult to get a cheap, off the shelf, DIY one.

Another concern I had with keeping it was that if it's classed as an extension then it would reduce the overall energy efficency rating of the house in the HIP.

For heating I was thinking of possibly getting a 5KW clean burn stove for the living room as I can get free wood. One I looked at has an 8000 BTU clip in boiler (need to check if it's still 'clean air act' exempt with boiler). There's a rad already in the garden room and the plumbing to the kitchen rad is a mess and needs replacing anyway. It's only a small 2 bed house so we could probably heat the downstairs including the garden room with that. Using the the combi boiler for upstairs and taps. I can also keep the costs down here by doing the plumbing myself. Again tho, not sure if that's more trouble than it's worth.

 

[hotrod]

A conservatory would be a good option too but the height of the kitchen window and back door, at over 9' from the ground would make it difficult to get a cheap, off the shelf, DIY one.

Your backdoor is 9 feet above Ext GL

Another concern I had with keeping it was that if it's classed as an extension then it would reduce the overall energy efficency rating of the house in the HIP.

I wouldn't worry too much about HIPs, Dave's going to scrap them next year anyway

 

[Richard C]

I think it may make more sense repair it as best we can, happily live with it and hope it doesn't cause too much trouble when we sell.

The problem is the more work you do to the existing non-compliant structure will just compound your BR issues. It will in all probability be regarded as unauthorised building works when you come to sell unless you can produce a certificate of compliance &, in it's current form, there seems to be very little possibility of retrospective compliance; you may well end up pulling it down completely in order to progress any sale!

A conservatory would be a good option too but the height of the kitchen window and back door, at over 9' from the ground would make it difficult to get a cheap, off the shelf, DIY one.

Similarly to Hotrod, I find that difficult to visialise!

Another concern I had with keeping it was that if it's classed as an extension then it would reduce the overall energy efficency rating of the house in the HIP.

I’ve no practical experience with these yet but if it’s compliant I don’t see how it can’t reduce the overall energy efficiency rating &, if it;s non compliant, it can't be regarded as an extension!

For heating I was thinking of possibly getting a 5KW clean burn stove for the living room as I can get free wood. One I looked at has an 8000 BTU clip in boiler (need to check if it's still 'clean air act' exempt with boiler). There's a rad already in the garden room and the plumbing to the kitchen rad is a mess and needs replacing anyway. It's only a small 2 bed house so we could probably heat the downstairs including the garden room with that. Using the the combi boiler for upstairs and taps. I can also keep the costs down here by doing the plumbing myself. Again tho, not sure if that's more trouble than it's worth.

The rad in the garden room may already be in breach of BR’s but, if you replace it, ensure it’s capable of being separately isolated from the main system (simple isolator valves on that loop) & independently controlled (fit a TRV) so you are at least not making the situation any worse. You should also have an exterior grade door fitted between the garden room & the rest of the property when you come to sell.

Installing a new stove is notifyable work unless you use a HETAS installer & as it’s over 4Kw, B Regs. also require a permanently open vent within the room. There are mixed views on installing back boilers to wood burning stoves as it reduces the flue temperature which can lead to excessive tarring near the top of the flue & condensation in the liner which is potentially very corrosive. Installing a back boiler is also notifyable work unless undertaken by a registered installer; the heat output from the stove can’t be instantly regulated either so a back boiler system must be correctly designed, installed & controlled.

 

[jocollett]

Re the 9' back door. There are two steps down out the back and there is a semicircular window above the door. In total it's 9' above the floor of the garden room. The kitchen window, also in the garden room is the same height. Raising the floor by 18" is possible but difficult due to the drain. Do you know if we would we need BR approval to do this? If we had a conservatory we would get a lot more light in the kitchen so we're still up for trying that.

I had a feeling the stove might be a problem.

If we repaired the sagging roof by replacing the dodgy rafters, we could maybe avoid any obvious signs of repair. If we replaced the windows with BR approved windows, could we not also avoid making things worse? We could explain what we have done when we sell and be open with the BR problems with the rest of the extension. Say we wanted to keep it, it's not likely to ever need knocking down and it's safe to use. We would accept that it could never add the same value as a BR approved extension, knowing that if we did invest say 10k building one, we may not get that much extra when we sell.

 

[jocollett]

Looks like raising inspection chamber by 18" won't be possible. Basically current regs suggest over 600mm isn't allowed unless a different type of inspection chamber is installed and/or cover used.

I was thinking that having a raised wooden floor and trap door might work but this will still effectively make the bottom of the drain 18" deeper than the floor and equally as dangerous so not sure if that would pass Building Regs either.

Hmm

Might have to stew this one over, or toss a coin.