Mason mitreing (??) worktops

Scoby_Beasley

Scoby_Beasley

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Anyone any experience of doing this with 'tools to hand' i.e. no expensive jigs/ router ??
I am intending to jigsaw (down stroke blade) female joint, lay under the male joint and mark it. cut male joint slightly long and then butt them up together and run a fine toothed handsaw down the gap until I get a nice "butt" (I should be so lucky :wink: ).
Does this sound feasable ?
 
:cry: :cry: :cry: I'm taking it that's a no then.
However, onwards and upwards ! Just 'cos it can't be done won't stop me... Ha HA Ha Ha Ha Haaaa.
Tally Ho !
(Okay dear, I'll take me tablet !!)
 
Having just installed new worktops take it from me you need the tools mate. At 1600w(min) router, worktop jig and some speed clamps. Oh and as I found 25 years experience to make sure you don't mess up the cutting. I ruined a length of worktop trying to do it myself.

In the end I decided to get a pro in, took him 1 1/2 hours and was cheaper than messing up pricey worktops!!
 
I have done this and it works provided that you consider the following.

mark the wortops out too long for the required surfaces, then cut the jointed ends of the worktop first - then the square other ends - that way you can have several attempts and not get the pieces too short.

a rough cut first must get both peices of wood (you are talking wood arent you) to marry with a gap no thicker than the one you propose to do the final double cut with.

when the two pieces marry temporarily fix them together underneath using hardboard or something similar and nails ( a good trick is to use wood glue with a sheet of paper between the surfaces - it splits off when you want to remove it) the idea is to make the joined pieces of worktop simulate a solid lump before you do a final cut.

the thing about this technique is that it will only work for dead straight profiles - each side of the blade will cut a corresponding surface, but if you introduce the slightest curve it will amplify the difference.
this is due to blade thickness, in theory a scalpel blade would take off so little swarf that any curves could be matched - marquetry uses this technique to good effect, but it doesnt scale up to worktop sizes.

So make your final cut as straight as you possibly can -
I often do this with a handsaw by clamping a stiff bar (box section steel or very straight pine plank) to the surface i'm going to cut so that the bed of the tool runs along it for the cut.
this often means doing a test cut to get the distance from the edge of the cut (the side you want) to the edge of the tools bed.
in other words clamp the board to a scrap and mark it then do a cut and measure the distance - better still dont measure but make a paper spacer.


provided the cut is straight it then becomes in your interest to use a thick blade - so you remove any wobbles from the mismatching rough cut on both sides.
it also helps to use as large a diameter circular saw as poss for the final cut, because they have a tendency to travel straighter than smaller ones or jigsaws.
 
garyclay said:
Having just installed new worktops take it from me you need the tools mate. At 1600w(min) router, worktop jig and some speed clamps.
Click to expand...

i hadn't ever used a router before so bought a cheapo 1020W one from B&Q (£30ish) (Axminster do similar if brand is problem!) and have since used it with great success to install 3 separate worktops (2 laminate, 1 solid wood). All with mitre joins (one of which was 950mm long) all without the aid of a jig (just used machined edge of another bit of worktop). I'm not trying to gloat, just to say that for £30 you could easily get a decent end result.
 
Get someone in to do it. The template for doing this job is a good £100 alone. Don't attempt it unless you have the right tools.
 
I think people are getting confused by these mitres.

A basic mitre is NOT a mason mitre.

A basic mitre is cutting from the front edge to the back edge at 45 deg.
The problems start when walls are out of square, both angles have to be adjusted to correct, if you don't the lengths are different.
To cut one of these all that is needed is a straight edge and circular saw,
YOU DO NOT NEED A ROUTER.
A mason mitre is completely different, there is a picture of the jig, elsewhere on this site. The benefits of this joint are that you can easily adjust to compensate for out of square corners. When bolted together the result is a strong joint, the joint line is just over 600mm long, on a basic mitre the line is much longer.
I earn my money doing this day after day and when I go to a job I have to have trust in my equipment that it is going to do the job properly and quickly.
So to repeat, to cut a MASON mitre you need the right tools to have a chance of success and it's not worth trying any other way.
I have in my working life met hundreds of kitchen fitters & known dozens of kitchen firms, to a man they all use jig & router, doesn't that tell you something?
I charge £70 for 1 joint, £100 for 2 and £130 for 3, and that includes cutting to length, supplying and fitting the bolts and fixing down. Is it really worth trying to do it yourself?
 
Sorry back again.
I have just read aidy_is posting again and it sounds like he has done a basic mitre ( sorry I am not trying to take anything away from your efforts)
If you go to page 2 of mitre jig, Masona has posted a picture of the jig.
If you could do it any other way, why bother to make something like this?
 
fitter said:
Is it really worth trying to do it yourself?
Click to expand...

Sorry, my mistake, i thought this was a Do-It-Yourself, not a Get-Someone-Else-To-Do-It forum.

Why discourage people who have enough sense to ask how to do something before they try, and therefore maybe have enouh sense to do a good job?

I'd never cut a worktop before, but, through trial-and-error on offcuts, have aquired a skill i didn't previously have. In the same way, I'd never done any plumbing, kitchen fittting, plastering, flooring, electrics etc etc untill I tried for the first time. Now I don't have to pay anyone to do any of that for me (apart from the plastering, of course, how do they get it so smooth!).

I'd love to be able to buy a 1600w+ router and a worktop jig, but it's not really justifiable as i dont tend to cut worktops every other day of the week! But if I can get much the same result, and I have, on both BASIC and MASON (didn't know it was called that 'till now) mitres, I'll send you the photos if you really want, for minimal outlay (for your price of your three joins, I could buy the jig AND a better router) then I will.

I'm envious of your obvious skills Fitter, but please don't assume that, with a bit of care and dilligence (and a lot more time, I'm sure) I, and therefore most other diy'ers with a modicom of intelligence, can't get a similar result.

Aidan
 
aidy_is

I know this is a diy forum but a lot of the information given, is from pros.
which in my book is priceless.
I was not trying to belittle your efforts as I pointed out. What I was pointing out is that you did not produce a mason mitre ( the thread after all is mason mitres) and there seems to be enough confusion about them anyway.
What I produce is completely different to what you have done, although the final result will look very similar, mine is much stronger and when done properly looks great and can be produced quickly, I do not have the luxury of trial & error.
For the price of 3 of my mitres you would not even come close to the cost of tools I use for the mitres.
Just as you did not like it when you wrongly thought I was taking something away from your efforts, I do not like it when somebody believes they can without any experience achieve what I can.
I could be wrong but I believe this site will keep running mainly due to the input from people who know and not by diyers feeding each other a load of half stories, be grateful there are people willing to point you in the right direction.
Stop being so touchy & get on with enjoying what you have achieved.
(even though you were wrong.....joke...........joke........joke)
 
point taken fitter - I was thinking common or garden mitre.
funny thing is I work with masons often and have never heard them refer to one - must be a carpenters thang.

I must say that i am with aidy_is when he says
Sorry, my mistake, i thought this was a Do-It-Yourself, not a Get-Someone-Else-To-Do-It forum.
Click to expand...

and scoby-Beasley
Sure is (worth doing) when you have loads of time, little money, a good engineering background and patience.
Click to expand...

clearly you are the one with the expertise here fitter - so if you take the fact that we might not have the equipment as understood. how would you suggest approaching the job without that equipment?
 
Fitter.

Point taken, I did get a leeetle bit tetchy, eh! Always dangerous to have a couple of pints at lunchtime!

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply I could achieve the same result as you.....well, actually, at the time, I did, but I was just a little hurt! No offence meant. I would be a little less restrained than you if some untrained monkey told me they could do my job as well as me!

You are right about the confusion between a basic and a masons mitre. I didn't know the term and when I posted my original reply I didn't realise the relevance of the thread subject.

But, just for the record, it was a masons mitre I achieved (that promise of photo's still stands), and with 3 biscuits and two worktop clamps per 600mm join I really do hope it is as strong as can be. (is that common practise to biscuit join them aswell, or have i over-engineered it as usual?)

I must say though it took a lot of jiggery-pokery to achieve and, as you say, I wouldn't recommend anyone tried one without that lovely jig unless they fancy at least a whole afternoons worth of pain and frustration!

As it's your trade you rightly say;
fitter said:
I do not have the luxury of trial & error
Click to expand...
but that, along with time, and an enjoyment of overcoming an obstacle, is one luxury DIYers do have.

And although you're right about the Pro's on here being indispensible, I think it's maybe a little arrogant of you to write
fitter said:
diyers feeding each other a load of half stories
Click to expand...
Dont underestimate the knowledge of a committed and persevering DIYer; because one day, you never know, they may be able to point you in the right direction.

Sorry again, though, didn't mean to get arsey! :)
(That **** bit is 'parsely' with the p and the l removed!)
 
oh and if you are worried about us messing up our worktops, cos we're not qualified or experienced enough check this one out

click me

...he might be needing your help VERY soon!

The wall cabinets with No More Nails worries me the most!

@ :)
 
aidy_is
Just to set the record straight, there are only three subjects I know enough to talk about, kitchens (my job), tools (my passion) & to a lesser extent furniture making ( my hobby), in everything else I'm a d.i.y.er and have already picked up some useful help from this site.

I certainly did not want to come across as arrogant, what I meant was that it's very easy to not have the full picture, which a whole group then believes is right, it's not until somebody who knows comes along & sets the record straight.

I have not done a full kitchen fit for 18 months, they bore me senseless, instead I now concentrate on doing the bits that stop people "having a go " themselves ie worktops, sinks, cornice etc. and have been told countless times that, if it hadn't been for me willing to do these jobs they would have had to employ somebody to fit the whole lot. ( I don't intend that to sound big headed) As a result my earnings have gone up and so has my free time.

You did not go for overkill using biscuits, some do, some don't.
I had already seen the other posting you mentioned, I think it's a wind up.
 
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