Maximum towable weight?

[ninebob]

A friend of mine broke down earlier and called for my help, fortunately we were able to fix it at the roadside and get her on her way. I was glad because I was slightly concerned about my car's ability to tow hers had I needed to. I have a 1.6 Xantia, hers being a 2.0 Cavalier is somewhat bigger and, i assume, heavier.

So my questions are: do you think I would have done it OK and what is the maximum weight I could pull with my car (I'm talking emergency one-offs, not regular trailer use etc)? Also, I'm told this kind of exercise is damaging to the clutch, can someone explain for me how this works?

 

[david and julie]

I don't think this would cause to many problems when done the odd time.

The main problems would be hill starts and you should slow down and read the road ahead to try to avoid stopping where possible.

The towing capacity for a trailer is a formula of the vehicles weight and power (I don't remember it) it allows for weight transfer and pushing the car round corners etc.

When you are towing a car with someone steering and braking you don't have these problems.

Have a look at this link, this equipment is used day in day out by the motortrade and the motoring clubs, without to much problem.

http://www.aframes.co.uk/

I find the biggest problem with rope towing is a nervous person who brakes to much in the car behind you. They should keep the rope tight but be as smooth as possible at the same time. The imposed loads of a slack rope going tight cause the most problems. Never use a chain for this either, one jerk will snap off your towing eye.

Consider the size and wind resistance of a caravan, these must be worse than a car on a windy day.

 

[pipme]

Towed home in a Healey Sprite by Range Rover on 6' of rope, cliff like 4wd ahead ... 50 mph ... maintaining rope tension ... 7 miles of hell !!
Replacing broken half-shaft, including pushing broken portion thro from opposite side of axle 30 mins .... Repacking grease in front wheel bearings 2 hrs !! ...
Action.. Join the AA or whoever provides suitable cover, it is cheaper !!
P

 

[ninebob]

Join the AA or whoever provides suitable cover, it is cheaper !!
P

I cancelled my AA membership in disgust after the following episode about 3 months ago:

Still had the peugeot 405 at that point, took a friend out for a driving lesson in the country, bit too brave and she put it in a ditch - no damage, but we couldn't get it moved because of the angle and wet grass.

Phoned the AA, they said someone would be with us within half an hour and sure enough a recovery truck arrives, not the AA themselves but an approved agent. Winched the car back on to the road no problem.

Then asked me for payment

I explained I was a full AA member, they said that to recover a vehicle after a road traffic accident the AA will only arrange the recovery, not pay for it. I tried to argue that this was hardly a road traffic accident as the car had not hit a thing and was undamaged.

They weren't having any of it, I then questioned why I was not told about this charge when on the phone to the AA or even by the recovery guy before he pulled the car out. Phoned the AA and was told this is completely within their rights as it's in the small print of the policy.

Bottom line, £117.50 !!! So I no longer see the point of paying the AA every year, I'll take my chances from now on.

 

[AdamW]

bit too brave and she put it in a ditch -

I wonder if any of my friends would be so understanding if I drove one of their cars into a ditch!

I would think that towing a 2l Cavalier with a 1.6 Xantia would be about as big a difference as you would want to go. Wouldn't want to try towing a Ford Granada with a Ford Fiesta, for example! Especially if the towing car is an automatic, you could possibly overheat the transmission.

Also, I'm told this kind of exercise is damaging to the clutch, can someone explain for me how this works?

I presume you aren't after an explanation of how a clutch works!

Think of this is like the difference between pulling away on the flat and pulling away up a steep hill. When you pull away on the flat, you are only working against the friction of the car so you barely need to slip the clutch as you pull away. But pulling away up a steep hill you are working against the weight of the car too (when towing, the resistance of the second car), so you need to slip the clutch a lot.

Not sure what the rolling resistance of a car is, but it isn't much otherwise they wouldn't be so easy to push. But when towing you are doubling the resistance just to get moving, then as you accelerate you are doubling the energy required to travel at a certain speed (remember, kinetic energy is proportional to the mass of an object)

All this adds up to the engine, gearbox, clutch and tyres being put under greater strain. That's just on the flat. Not sure if you would have been able to move if you had to pull away up a hill.

Useless Adam fact: Freight trains get around this by having slack in their couplings. The locomotive shunts forwards, then pulls the first carriage. When this is moving it pulls the second carriage and so forth. So, the engine can be less powerful than it would be if the couplings were rigid and had to get the whole train moving all at once.

Of course you can't do this with a car because a rope would snap, and a rigid bar, as Dave mentioned, would snap your towing eye off (sounds painful!)

 

[pipme]

Join the AA or whoever provides suitable cover, it is cheaper !!
P

I cancelled my AA membership in disgust after the following episode about 3 months ago:

Still had the peugeot 405 at that point, took a friend out for a driving lesson in the country, bit too brave and she put it in a ditch - no damage, but we couldn't get it moved because of the angle and wet grass.

Phoned the AA, they said someone would be with us within half an hour and sure enough a recovery truck arrives, not the AA themselves but an approved agent. Winched the car back on to the road no problem.

Then asked me for payment

I explained I was a full AA member, they said that to recover a vehicle after a road traffic accident the AA will only arrange the recovery, not pay for it. I tried to argue that this was hardly a road traffic accident as the car had not hit a thing and was undamaged.

They weren't having any of it, I then questioned why I was not told about this charge when on the phone to the AA or even by the recovery guy before he pulled the car out. Phoned the AA and was told this is completely within their rights as it's in the small print of the policy.

Bottom line, £117.50 !!! So I no longer see the point of paying the AA every year, I'll take my chances from now on.

Unfortunately tis true, they see the cost as insurance recoverable ... but when you or yours break-down in the rain and darkness on the motorway ... as i did recently - totally unforseen, wiper linkage broken, the urge to drive on, with one's off-spring waiting at distant airport, pretty well blind amongst lorries would have been just too much and may have resulted in a nasty accident - I am staying with the recovery mob .. rarely used, but you know so ds law.
P

 

[AdamW]

I didn't join any club until I broke down! I was at a set of traffic lights on Cromwell Road in London, the lights went green, my mo'bike engine died. Got it onto the pavement, feeling a thousand angry eyes burning into the back of my helmet for making them miss the sequence!

Rung my mum, who signed me up to the family RAC cover. RAC rung me 2 minutes later and said there was a van in the area just tending to someone else, would be with me in 30 minutes. So I sat talking idly to my Dad on the phone when I noticed something wrong with the bike...

The engine kill switch was set to "off"... Set it to "on", engine started first attempt! Must have knocked it with my hand when pulling away! Cancelled the call-out, but stayed on the cover ever since.

 

[pipme]

Ninebob .. may have plunged too quickly ... If car breaks down on motorway .. with no breakdown cover, the law contact and send help, I have no experience of this but guess one could be prey to mega charges, a further call out similar to the ditching, but perhaps a tow in jobby could easily exceed the cost of cover for a year.
Given the car buying and running methodology employed I think breakdown cover might be advantageous.

 

[david and julie]

The recovery operator probably charged just under the statutory charges and could of charged you more. Here are the official Home Office set rules which the operator would use if the police came.

How much will it cost to have my vehicle recovered?

The government sets the statutory recovery fee and it is currently £105. This includes storage until midday, the following day. If you fail to collect your vehicle there will be further charges of £12 per day for storage. No VAT is payable on the statutory recovery fee or on the statutory storage charges.

And this also applies in your instance.

Can there be additional charges on top of the £105 statutory removal fee?

Yes.

The £105 statutory recovery fee set by the government is only for removal of vehicles that can be immediately towed safely and do not require any special equipment to assist with the recovery. If the vehicle needs to be winched, lifted by crane, or other special equipment is needed to aid the recovery, the recovery operator can charge for this equipment. VAT is payable on these additional charges

The police check these charges.

Do the police monitor these additional charges?

Yes

The constabulary, in association with its vehicle recovery managing agents, AADL (part of the AA Breakdown Group) constantly monitor the charges made by its recovery operators.

The recovery operators are contractually required to charge only reasonable rates for special equipment.

You will find all the fee's here.

http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/InfoCentre/ItemDetails.aspx?ItemID=632#11

Although it may seem expensive you have to consider the costs to the recovery operator. These are a long list and are very expensive.

A friend of mine with no convictions and full NCD pays £9000 insurance alone, for one transporter, because of the risks involved.

I would recommend you get basic towing cover, if it happens again say nothing and give the driver £20 and then everybody will be happy. (unless of course he owns the truck)

 

[pipme]

Unattended or abandoned vehicles
If you have an emergency or break down you can leave your vehicle unattended on the hard shoulder of the motorway for a maximum of two hours in the Lancashire Constabulary area (and in most others) during daylight hours.
It will be removed immediately if it is unlit and after dark.
If you are arranging your own recovery you must remove it yourself or have it removed within two hours. If you do not the police will arrange to have the vehicle removed by a commercial removal company on behalf of the local authority.

welcome to 'tip yer wallet upside down' time !!!

 

[masona]

Last week we has a Bitumen tanker broken down (starter motor problem) on our weighbridge and because of the company rules of towing we has Ontime recovery to bump start it off the weighbridge, final bill cost for 10 minutes job £1100 ! , nice breast machine though, must've been at least 40' long.

 

[david and julie]

I don't want you guy's thinking theres money in recovery, I couldn't retire till I was 47!

No seriously this type of kit is very expensive to buy, run and maintain, it may not be used very often and these overheads are why the individual jobs are expensive.

You don't see many new heavy recovery trucks it is usual to put new lifting gear onto older chassis's.This company is recognised in the trade as having good quality and respected gear.

http://www.rogerdyson.com/

There is not much stock in at the moment but look at the price of this

http://www.rogerdyson.com/showvehicle.asp?ID=SV2657

That truck is 1984, £29K at 20 years old not very big and as done a fair bit of mileage now! If the one Masona saw was new you could easily times that by 10 or even 15. I will try and find a dear one for you.

 

[pipme]

I don't want you guy's thinking theres money in recovery, I couldn't retire till I was 47!
No seriously .........

I really ran out of space to stash the loot .. just had to stop !!

 

[AdamW]

Driving round the M25 near the Heathrow roadworks there was a Saunders recovery truck parked in the same place by the side of the anticlockwise carriageway for a good few months. Is it common practice for them to pay to have someone just sit there on call all day for roadworks on the M25 (the "Free Recovery" the signs speak of perhaps?).

Might have just answered my own question there!

 

[pipme]

Ninebob :-
An example from Churchill Breakdown Policy
The Breakdown service is provided by Green Flag Motoring Assistance.

The following important features can be found under 'General conditions' in your policy booklet:
We may choose to repair the vehicle (at your cost) following a breakdown, rather than arranging for it to be recovered.
We can provide assistance after a road traffic accident but you will be responsible for any costs involved. You may be able to recover these costs from your motor insurer.
You can only reduce your level of cover at renewal.
You can cancel your policy by giving us 7 days notice. If no callout has been made during the period of cover, we will refund the part of the premium you have not used less a cancellation charge of 25% of the yearly premium.
We will not refund any premium if you cancel CARS cover.
If the recovery or repair vehicle does not arrive within 60 minutes of you contacting us, you can claim £10 compensation.