Mysterious Victorian Roof

[bigalxyz]

I’m trying to get to grips with a water damage problem on one side of a 4 storey late Victorian house in London. There’s a flat area - looks like a trough - in front of the sloping roof, so presumably when it rains, all the water goes into there. But from there, how does it drain? There’s no gutter. And lots of problems with water cascading down the side of the building in rainy weather. Something’s not right...

(a couple of photos attached)

Can anyone shed any light on this please? I’m a bit ignorant I’m afraid.

 

[Alastairreid]

Looks like an outlet on 2nd pic.

 

[bigalxyz]

Do you mean where it looks a bit wet in the middle?

I’ve just noticed a gap at the other end - is that relevant here, do you think?

(another photo attached)

Thank you

 

[JohnD]

you appear to have a parapet roof, common in and around the City of London after 1666

There should be drainage from the "trough." Sometimes the downpipes are concealed or boxed-in, with an ornamental pier or fake pillar, but you might see a hopper. Might be one at each end. Drainage is prone to blockage by leaves, or by slush during a thaw. Keep a yard broom handy.

I would have thought the covering was originally lead or perhaps asphalt, and you have a recent economy repair in felt. If you can afford a better job, there are sure to be roofers in your area familiar with the technique. I see a railing. Perhaps this is part of a fire escape.

edit
see here
https://www.locallocalhistory.co.uk/schools/preperation/fire-regs.htm
your parapet looks lower than usual. The design often means the roof cannot be seen from the street, and the fashion was followed outside the capital in houses with asprations to grandness. It became thought that a visible roof was somewhat vulgar. Some London styles resulting from these early regulations became a regional vernacular and also followed in pretentious provincial towns.

Are you a local?

 

[bigalxyz]

you appear to have a parapet roof, common in and around the City of London after 1666

There should be drainage from the "trough." Sometimes the downpipes are concealed or boxed-in, with an ornamental pier or fake pillar, but you might see a hopper. Might be one at each end. Drainage is prone to blockage by leaves, or by slush during a thaw. Keep a yard broom handy.

I would have thought the covering was originally lead or perhaps asphalt, and you have a recent economy repair in felt. If you can afford a better job, there are sure to be roofers in your area familiar with the technique. I see a railing. Perhaps this is part of a fire escape.

edit
see here
https://www.locallocalhistory.co.uk/schools/preperation/fire-regs.htm
your parapet looks lower than usual. The design often means the roof cannot be seen from the street, and the fashion was followed outside the capital in houses with asprations to grandness. It became thought that a visible roof was somewhat vulgar. Some London styles resulting from these early regulations became a regional vernacular and also followed in pretentious provincial towns.

Are you a local?

Thank you for this - some interesting information here.

So I think I need to go back up there next weekend and see if I work out where the drainage from the trough is (and where it goes from there because there's no visible downpipe). That's a mystery to me, although I didn't actually walk out there, I just peered through a hatch in the attic roof. There clearly *is* drainage otherwise all the rain we've had recently would still be sitting there!

What troubles me is that a lot of water is running down the side of the house when it rains, and I don't understand where it comes from! Next time it rains I will go and have a look.

If it helps, I've uploaded a photo of the front of our house and also the front of a similar house a few doors down. Ours has no downpipe visible at the front, but the other house does. Why one does and the other doesn't I'm afraid I have no idea.

The house was built in the late 19th C I believe - and yes from the street you can't see the roof.

Am I a local...well I'm from Yorkshire originally but I've lived here for 16 years now so does that count...?

 

[JohnD]

I wonder if it goes round the right-hand corner? Sometimes the downpipe runs diagonally down the wall. If water runs down the side, it may be missing or damaged. I suspect there was previously a house of similar age there, and the gutters might have been linked. There may be a bit of wall patched on the end of your house when the neighbour was demolished. Quite likely war damage, in East London. A pair of binoculars will help you.

Also, if you look at the windowframes, you will see they are set back from the outer face of the wall, and the frames are set into the brickwork so there is hardly anything to catch fire from outside. This is part of the post-1666 regulations. You'll notice that on the inside there may be a bit of moulding underneath, but no window board. When I moved out of the area I was quite surprised to realise provincial houses usually have the windows set to the outside face, with an internal reveal, and frames exposed.

 

[bigalxyz]

I wonder if it goes round the right-hand corner? Sometimes the downpipe runs diagonally down the wall. I suspect there was previously a house of similar age there, and the gutters might have been linked. There may be a bit of wall patched on the end of your house when the neighbour was demolished. Quite likely war damage, in East London. A pair of binoculars will help you.

Are we getting our wires crossed...our house is the wide one shown in Capture2.PNG and the other house with the downpipe is the narrower one shown in Capture.PNG (I wanted to swap the order of the pictures around to show ours first but I couldn't do it)

 

[bobasd]

clean up all the damp looking debris in the second pic, and dispose of it - a dry, large scrubbing brush will work.
as above observed, there might be an outlet in that area.

while your at it, totally clean up all traces of debris anywhere on the "trough" - it will prevent debris blocking any outlet or chute, or even blocking the down rainwater pipe etc, and perhaps reveal any cracks or holes in the felt.
there will be some kind of outlet for that "trough".

whatever is happening at the "gap at the other end" doesn't show - more detailed pics of that area needed.
the trough is draining towards the gap end of the roof.

if you go into the street and look up you can photo the facade of the building, and more drainage details might be revealed?

pic 2 shows the felt upstand on the parapet wall pulling away here & there, and opening up at the inside corner.
on the LH side of pic 2 lead flashing and felt flashing(?) are briefly shown where the main roof tiles terminate - mixing flashing materials often indicates previous repair work?
can you pic that flashing in more detail?

please show where the "water is cascading down the side of the building" on a pic of the side elevation?

fwiw:
1. originally there would have been total leadwork up there - no felt.
2. depending on any leaseholders or freeholds any repair work costs might be tricky.
3. is the building connected to a neighbour's building beyond the gap?

 

[JohnD]

oh, the house with the cream render on ground and first floor.

No sign of any downpipes on the front elevation. Tap the "stone" quoin in case it is hollow. On the RHS it looks like it might have been added after the house was built, it isn't neat in the brickwork.

 

[bigalxyz]

Whoops...twice I talked about water running down the side of the building when I meant to say down the front of the building!

 

[catlad]

Some of the older property's used to drain rainwater through the attic to the back of the property to eliminate the need for drainpipes at the front.

 

[bigalxyz]

Some of the older property's used to drain rainwater through the attic to the back of the property to eliminate the need for drainpipes at the front.

Yes, on further inspection there is a downpipe inside the attic space! Where it goes to from there is a mystery...but it all seems to be working ok anyway.

I think the main problem here seems in fact to be the little flat "roofs" on top of the two bay windows (circled red in the photo). Would you call them roofs, or something else? Anyway a lot of water hits those when it rains, and it just sits there...and there are damp problems in at least one of the two bay windows. I suspect the flat roofs are quite old & knackered, and perhaps just need replacing. But should there be some kind of guttering there as well to channel rainwater away safely?

 

[catlad]

I have seen bay windows of that period with an 1 1/4 lead pipe for drainage into the cellar before now.

 

[bigalxyz]

I have seen bay windows of that period with an 1 1/4 lead pipe for drainage into the cellar before now.

Nothing like that here unfortunately. There's a slightly bigger bay window on the house next door, and that has a proper surround on it and a little gutter coming out of the side. Result: no water damage! Need to get someone to come and have a look at ours and advise I think.