Ogee or not!

[ChilliBob]

Guys, recently moved into a new place which had a rather anxious puppy I think - it's basically eaten away the architrave in a couple of rooms. I've managed to cleanly get a section out, which I'll replace, however, I'm finding a bloody hard job to get an even close match!

On initial inspection it's Ogee, but when you compare to ones from B&Q and local wood yard it's not the same.

Any thoughts on whether this is some odd variant and where I can get it from?

Pics show the difference (sample from wood yard vs knackered white/pine one)

 

[Deleted member 174758]

TBH there is no such thing as a "standard" profile - every manufacturer seems to have their own variation on a theme. It may be possible to remove a matching existing architrave from, say, inside a cupboard or a small toilet, clean it up and use that for the repair, then replace it in the smaller room, but if I couldn't find a match that's what I'd consider doing

If the architrave on the inside of a room is different but similar to that on the outside it often isn't that noticeable after it's been painted in

 

[RrogerD]

If unable to do achieve as Jobandknock says above, pull the whole lot and replace and paint. Just be real careful as you remove it, slit down the back with a knife as it may have been caulker and you'll risk ripping the adjacent paint or wallpaper

 

[opps]

You can fill and sand damaged mouldings with two pack filler but it is rather time consuming. That said, it will be wayyyy cheaper than asking a timber yard to machine up replacements.

If it is only a couple of rooms, I would estimate that it will take about 3 hours to fill and sand.

Here in London, if I ask my local timber merchant to match a specific moulding, that they don't have the cutter for, it will cost about £250 for them to order in a custom cutter for their spindle moulder.

In the following image my customer replaced their Banham door entry lock for a smaller one. I had to back fill the missing architrave with two pack filler.







If you are interested in going down that path, I can offer further advice.

All in, the above was half a day of work. Fill sand, fill sand, fill sand, fill sand, fill sand. His profiles were much more complex than yours though, he had a "pencil" edge lip on the architrave, that part alone added 20% extra time.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Now there's the difference between you and me. That's not too complex a moulding, so I'd probably have had the lock off, infilled with a block of timber and planed in the profile to fairly near (the flat bits are easy, the profiled bits have to be "threepenny-bitted" then sanded or scraped to profile), chopped the new lock in, then resorted to the filler (if needs be). It would still be pushing 1/2 a days work, though. I agree with you about the cost of custom mouldings - £90 or more to have knives ground and £40 plus to have a spindle set-up before a piece of timber goes near it, and that's a "mate's rate" from someone in the trade because we buy a fair bit off him, so he's doing it more or less at cost - if you are a retail walk-in he'd lump at least 30% on top as his margin.

As it happens I'm off to cost up a job on a listed tomorrow where it's probably going to be necessary to reproduce a number of short lengths of moulding, so maybe time to get the rounds and hollows out and give them a good fettling

 

[opps]

Now there's the difference between you and me. That's not too complex a moulding, so I'd probably have had the lock off, infilled with a block of timber and planed in the profile to fairly near (the flat bits are easy, the profiled bits have to be "threepenny-bitted" then sanded or scraped to profile), chopped the new lock in, then resorted to the filler (if needs be). It would still be pushing 1/2 a days work, though. I agree with you about the cost of custom mouldings - £90 or more to have knives ground and £40 plus to have a spindle set-up before a piece of timber goes near it, and that's a "mate's rate" from someone in the trade because we buy a fair bit off him, so he's doing it more or less at cost - if you are a retail walk-in he'd lump at least 30% on top as his margin.

As it happens I'm off to cost up a job on a listed tomorrow where it's probably going to be necessary to reproduce a number of short lengths of moulding, so maybe time to get the rounds and hollows out and give them a good fettling

Yeah, I am primarily a decorator, rather than a chippie. The image doesn't show that I had to additionally had to fill the old "strike" plate as well. Filling those parts where they reach the rounded profile was pretty time consuming.

What is "threepenny-bitted"?

BTW, I recently purchased a "not very expensive" bandsaw. I will post a question in the tool section later. I would be grateful if you could comment.

Regards Opps

 

[Deleted member 174758]

"Threepenny bitted" means faceted - so in the absence if a hollow plane (which despite the name actually produces a rounded shape) you can approximate by planing a chamfer, then two more chamfers, then 4 more again and so on:

Leading to a profile a bit like the edge of:

which for all you post decimalisation kids is a "threepennyt bit"

The more facets you have, the easier it is to sand to a radiused edge

 

[johnny2007]

"Threepenny bitted" means faceted - so in the absence if a hollow plane (which despite the name actually produces a rounded shape) you can approximate by planing a chamfer, then two more chamfers, then 4 more again and so on:

View attachment 264737 View attachment 264738

Leading to a profile a bit like the edge of:

View attachment 264736

which for all you post decimalisation kids is a "threepennyt bit"

The more facets you have, the easier it is to sand to a radiused edge

You are the man.
A trip down memory lane

 

[Deleted member 174758]

A trip down memory lane

At times I think it's where I live, especially when my director describes me to potential clients as our "old-school joiner"...

 

[johnny2007]

At times I think it's where I live, especially when my director describes me to potential clients as our "old-school joiner"...

I'm referred as "The fixer".
Known in the local area to fix all sorts of bodge jobs.
I used to make a mint fixing jobs done by cowboys, to the point that there was a rumour I was in partnership with them

 

[ChilliBob]

You can fill and sand damaged mouldings with two pack filler but it is rather time consuming. That said, it will be wayyyy cheaper than asking a timber yard to machine up replacements.

If it is only a couple of rooms, I would estimate that it will take about 3 hours to fill and sand.

Here in London, if I ask my local timber merchant to match a specific moulding, that they don't have the cutter for, it will cost about £250 for them to order in a custom cutter for their spindle moulder.

In the following image my customer replaced their Banham door entry lock for a smaller one. I had to back fill the missing architrave with two pack filler.

View attachment 264730
View attachment 264731
View attachment 264732

View attachment 264733

If you are interested in going down that path, I can offer further advice.

All in, the above was half a day of work. Fill sand, fill sand, fill sand, fill sand, fill sand. His profiles were much more complex than yours though, he had a "pencil" edge lip on the architrave, that part alone added 20% extra time.

Sorry for the massive delay in replying, and the silence - had a lot going on.

I have some Tourpret wood filler I've got from ToolStation. My current plan, is probably:

* Give the wood yard one last go and see if they have anything different!
* Cut a section of decent profile off behind a door in the lounge - refit something close to this replaced area, possibly even the old mashed up oogee, sand and fill this area
* Put the cut section into the main visible area in the kitchen - probably have something slightly too big, and sand it down till it's a tight fit, I suppose grip fill or similar and a sash clamp to secure it in place
* Sand and then fill the joins
* Repaint the lot when we redecorate, probably Autumn at this rate!

Taking the whole lot off will be a major pain - on the other side half of it is behind a siliconed cabinet for the fridge too. Chances are it'll probablly look okay visually to anyone who comes round, and to my wife, but it'll look just slightly out of wack to be a bit irritating to me, and my Dad will spot it a mile off (good eye for detail!)

 

[sparkymarka]

Have you tried wickes ? I had the same issue went around various wood yards, B&Q …..last try was wickes and it the correct profile…

 

[ChilliBob]

Yeah, they were my last attempt, as the picture online looked pretty much spot on, alas, in person it looked just like the B&Q one! d'oh!



Cheers for the suggestion