Overboarding lath and plaster ceiling + install new downlights

[Timmyk86]

Hi all,

I live in a Victorian semi with original lath and plaster ceilings. They are a bit discoloured and cracked, but nothing major and still flat. They look tired though and I'm planning to overboard, skim and re-paint them. I've considered pulling them down but the house is fully furnished and lived in so can't really afford the mess that would create!

At the same time as doing this, I am hoping to install some downlights in the dining area. The whole downstairs is open front to back, but the dining area in the middle has no window and gets dark. There's a single ceiling rose in the middle. Access to wiring from above is not possible and engineered floorboards have been laid on top of the originals.

I'm hoping to run my plan past you guys and get any advice/tips you have to offer.

1) Find location of joists and mark with a chalkline - either using a long nail to locate the joists or by knocking holes either side of them.
2) Create holes in the plaster either side of the joists and use these to run a new 1mm wire across the ceiling from the existing rose to where I want the downlights. Carefully make holes in the L&P for the downlights, larger than they need to so the lights fit into the plasterboard at the end. Feed the wire through these.
3) Use 75mm plasterboard screws to fix the new plasterboard (6x3ft, 12.5mm) up into the joists, laid horizontal to them
4) Drill the holes for the downlights in the plasterboard
5) Get a pro to skim the boards and paint

That's obviously just an overview of what should actually happen but I would really appreciate any thoughts before I start on what is probably quite a big job.

Thanks!
T

 

[Timmyk86]

Picture of ceiling in question!

 

[motorbiking]

IMO you could get away with a rub down fill and repaint. Personally the appeal of a tear down re-wire and full insulation of pipes and void is appealing. I'd do one or the other.

 

[johnny2007]

I know you don't want to make any mess, but I would personally seal the kitchen door and all cabinets with masking tape and pull the l&p ceiling down.
There may be loose cables, pipes and dodgy electrical connections which may need attention and this would be the right time.
Also, there's always a risk that trying to find the joists might result in drilling through said wires or water pipes.
Pull it down IMO.

 

[Timmyk86]

IMO you could get away with a rub down fill and repaint. Personally the appeal of a tear down re-wire and full insulation of pipes and void is appealing. I'd do one or the other.

I know you don't want to make any mess, but I would personally seal the kitchen door and all cabinets with masking tape and pull the l&p ceiling down.
There may be loose cables, pipes and dodgy electrical connections which may need attention and this would be the right time.
Also, there's always a risk that trying to find the joists might result in drilling through said wires or water pipes.
Pull it down IMO.

I agree, the idea of exposing everything and re-wiring is appealing. But the mess sounds catastrophic, and as my downstairs floor is open plan it would get absolutely everywhere. That's what put me off. Plus the living room (Without addition of new lights mind), 2 hallways, and potentially 2 upstairs bedrooms also need doing!

Sanding and repainting wouldn't allow me to install new lights, right?

That said, if you did do this, would you leave the laths in place or take them down too?

Thanks for the input - much appreciated.

 

[Timmyk86]

Other option is a false ceiling with the wiring in that instead of above the L&P?

 

[johnny2007]

If you take the ceiling down you will remove laths, all of them.
Don't be too scaredof the mess, there's something you can do to keep it to a minimum.
1. Seal the open plan opening with plastic dust sheets (£1) and masking tape.
2. Seal all kitchen cabinets
3. Cover all cabinets with more dust sheets.
4. Cover the floor.
5. Make a foot square hole anywhere in the ceiling by breaking some laths.
6. Take a trusted hoover and start hoovering inside the hole.
7. Break the laths as you go with the hoover.
8. have an assistant taking the broken laths from your hands or throw them in a previously prepared box.
9. once all laths are off, pull out all nails.

I did my ceiling using this method a few years ago and it worked a treat because you break laths that have been hoovered of all debris and dust.

 

[bobasd]

After a couple of knock-thro's in a Victorian house, and you still have flat ceilings - then you are well ahead of the game.

As above, fill the cracks, rub down the ceilings and paint.

Its a simple matter to install a downlight or lights in a lath and plaster ceiling.
The drop in the pic shows where its hooked into a joist. The rose will most probably be fixed next to a joist.

Stay away from anything more elaborate or messy - keep it simple.

 

[Timmyk86]

After a couple of knock-thro's in a Victorian house, and you still have flat ceilings - then you are well ahead of the game.

As above, fill the cracks, rub down the ceilings and paint.

Its a simple matter to install a downlight or lights in a lath and plaster ceiling.
The drop in the pic shows where its hooked into a joist. The rose will most probably be fixed next to a joist.

Stay away from anything more elaborate or messy - keep it simple.

Fair enough! Thanks. Seems like sanding it down and repainting might be best then as a couple of you have suggested it.

With regard to getting the new wiring above the L&P without destroying it - how would you go about this?

Thanks again

 

[bobasd]

I didn't say anything about destroying or not destroying any patch of ceiling but until the DL positions and cable runs are worked out not a lot can be said without a massive explanation.

So, I would need to be on site to answer that question. Its no big deal but I dont want to be responsible for you maybe getting it wrong.
Why not put your question to the Elec forum? They fish and snake cable all the time.

 

[Nige F]

Lining paper

 

[IT Minion]

If you cut a hole in the ceiling the size of a downlighter then you can post a small maglite up and then take a photo with your phone camera to check for obstructions.

If you then cut the next down lighter hole you can then feed 1.5mm twin and earth along and waggle it about so that you see it cross the new hole and pull it down. Rinse and repeat. At that point your lathe and plaster is probably still intact.

It'd be much trickier to go across any joists though. I'd guess you'd need to cut a decent sized hole out of the ceiling by each joist to get a drill in. If you do try that you'd need to be careful as lathe and plaster can crack and break along the lathes, leaving you with a much bigger and harder to patch area.