Party wall surveyor - scope of responsibilities?

[raine]

Hi,

I'm an "Adjoining Owner" under the Party Wall Act, and have an Agreed surveyor, with a Party Wall Award already drafted and agreed. The "Building Owner's" works are in progress.

Some damage has occurred to my building that requires remediation work.

The Building Owner has proposed a method for the remediation. I asked the Agreed Surveyor if he was happy with this, and his response was "Should be confirmed by the building owners engineer that whatever is being done meets with his approval".

The Agreed Surveyor's remit is to represent the interests of both the Building Owner and Adjoining Owner, but he has pushed the responsibility of approving the remediation method onto the Building Owner's engineer, who of course only represents the interests of the Building Owner.

My questions are:

1. Is it normal / correct that the Party Wall Surveyor does not approve the proposed remediation works, rather pushes that responsibility onto the Building Owner's engineer?

2. Aside from the boundaries of responsibility, would you normally / reasonably expect a Party Wall Surveyor to have knowledge of the details of remediation works (e.g. different methods for horizontal vs. vertical crack repair, etc.)?

 

[^woody^]

The PWS would need to be qualified in the areas that he is being asked to comment on.

The Award should be drafted to deal with how remedial work is to be dealt with and agreed, and you should not need to be going back to the surveyor unless the Award states this.

 

[raine]

The Party Wall Award says that the Building Owner shall:

"Make good all structural, decorative or horticultural damage to the Adjoining Owner’s property occasioned by the said works in materials to match the existing fabric and finishes, to the reasonable satisfaction of the agreed surveyor"

Which doesn't really answer either of my above questions.

 

[^woody^]

Then the PW surveyor decides on how damage should be made good, no one else.

 

[raine]

So, if the PW surveyor's decision is "whatever the Building Owner's engineer wants", do I have grounds for complaint that he's not doing his job properly? Particularly bearing in mind that the BO's engineer represents the interests of the BO rather than me?

Or would it be unreasonable of me to say that?

 

[Leofric]

Does the building owner have an engineer involved in this

would you normally / reasonably expect a Party Wall Surveyor to have knowledge of the details of remediation works

Yes , although it depends on how structural the remedial works are !

 

[^woody^]

So, if the PW surveyor's decision is "whatever the Building Owner's engineer wants

No that's not a decision, and not what the award says.

 

[Nakajo]

While it's obviously sensible that the 'surveyor' have knowledge of construction and the Act's procedures, technically anyone (other than a party to the works) can act as a Party Wall Surveyor. So it's not unreasonable that the surveyor refer the process of remediation to an engineer. Regardless of the fact that the engineer acts for the building owner, they are not going to risk their PI by advising a resolution that knowingly leaves your half of the wall in an unsatisfactory condition.

 

[Leofric]

technically anyone (other than a party to the works) can act as a Party Wall Surveyor.

bit of a flaw in the system there then As others have said ,the party wall surveyor makes the decision , but a structural engineer can still be involved to give advice on structural matters. On these party wall situations I remember we prepared the technical/construction proposals in detail so there was no real need to argue about anything, just go through the correct procedure.
We do not know the details in this particular case but as far as the original queries are concerned I would expect the party wall surveyor to be some sort of building professional with relevant technical knowledge.

 

[^woody^]

I would expect the party wall surveyor to be some sort of building professional with relevant technical knowledge

Maybe in the fluffy world of unicorns, candyfloss trees and chocolate lakes.

I think anyone would expect a "surveyor" to be able to survey, but not in this case. My Spaniel could be a PW surveyor, if he could get someone to translate his waggy tail and spell check his keyboard input, as otherwise he's qualified.

The Award is everything, and if the PW surveyor does not have the expertise to survey or check remedial work, then he could write it into the Award for such things to be dealt with by another suitably qualified person.

The thing is with remedials, is that the surveyor has lost his leverage for getting paid. Initially, the BO pays him as he's the one that wants the Award so that he can start work, so there is some incentive. But when faced with an AO who has no clout, and wont be paying the bills, but will want to the PW surveyor to jump, high and quickly, the poor surveyor may be wondering when he will be seeing the payment, so he may not be too bothered about doing anymore work for this couple who are at loggerheads and will just give the poor surveyor earache and stress.

 

[Leofric]

Maybe in the fluffy world of unicorns, candyfloss trees and chocolate lakes.

I didn't work in that sort of world, I worked in a very real world and your spaniel wouldn't have had a look in.
As for the rest, what does all that mean , wouldn't you want a party wall surveyor to be some sort of building professional

 

[^woody^]

wouldn't you want a party wall surveyor to be some sort of building professional

Not if I'm paying for my neighbour to get all the benefit.

 

[raine]

Interesting discussion - sets in my mind the way the BO, and indeed the PWS, may work the system to their advantage, and good to know for any potential future PW matters.

I will think very carefully about agreeing to an Agreed Surveyor if I'm ever in this situation again.

In this case, I am happy with the proposed remediation, and added some specifics of my own on precisely how I want it done, so it will be fine as long as the PWS doesn't disagree with my proposals.

Interested to hear how others would go about selecting a PWS. I guess it's a bit like choosing anyone in the industry - word-of-mouth is your friend?

On these party wall situations I remember we prepared the technical/construction proposals in detail so there was no real need to argue about anything, just go through the correct procedure.

@Leofric, were you the BO? Did your proposals include information about remediation works in case of damage to AO's property?
The input from the BO was essentially a set of construction drawings with the usual level of details and text, but no additional information such as method statements or how remedial works would be done. I would have thought it unusual for a BO to prepare a detailed list of potential remediation works ahead of the event though, as very difficult to speculate exactly what might be needed?

 

[Leofric]

were you the BO? I don't have BO. Did your proposals include information about remediation works in case of damage to AO's property? I was on the design side and involved on more than one project with architects, developers, builders . We prepared whatever information was needed ,the working drawings/construction details for the building work would be the information given to the PWS.
The input from the BO was essentially a set of construction drawings with the usual level of details and text, but no additional information such as method statements or how remedial works would be done. :-

The Building Owner has proposed a method for the remediation.

I would have thought it unusual for a BO to prepare a detailed list of potential remediation works ahead of the event though, as very difficult to speculate exactly what might be needed?

sorry, may have been some confusion over remedial works and the details submitted for the proposed building work before work started ,on my part at least. However -

In this case, I am happy with the proposed remediation, and added some specifics of my own on precisely how I want it done, so it will be fine as long as the PWS doesn't disagree with my proposals.

so hopefully you should be satisfied with the result.