pc on 24/7 ?
- Thread starter masona
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No reason why you can't leave it on 24/7 other than the fact it uses up electricity - contributes to global warming etc, etc. There's minimal fire hazard as they are low power devices. As with all things mechanical the bits that move will eventually wear out, the first one being the fan after about 3 years continuous use though I've yet to see a disc drive go down through ordinary desk top use.
Of interest though, in the future (next few years) the construction of the chips will be down to sub-micron levels. The impact of this is that the devices will actually wear out after a few years of use as the atoms migrate throught the conductors causing open circuits or mechanical stress. The longer you leave everything switched on the earlier the effect will kick in. It's called electro-migration, there's articles about it on the net.
Of interest though, in the future (next few years) the construction of the chips will be down to sub-micron levels. The impact of this is that the devices will actually wear out after a few years of use as the atoms migrate throught the conductors causing open circuits or mechanical stress. The longer you leave everything switched on the earlier the effect will kick in. It's called electro-migration, there's articles about it on the net.
I have frequently. The main dissadvantage is the cost of electricity. This can be halved by turning the monitor off when not in use.
Another problem is memory leaks. Some applications do not release all the memory bocks that they have requested when they are closed. Usually these lost blocks are only a few K and not of much significance. But when you leave it on 24/7. These small blocks can add up over the months leading to a memory shortage.
One of the advantages is the constant temperature of the mother board. (Contrary to popular beleif, the main reason for fans in the Base unit is to keep heat gradients across circuit boards fairly small. The actual running temperature is less important.) During boot up, some chips (DMA controller especially) can generate large amounts of heat. This causes localised heating of the circuit board in this area and thereby stresses on the board itself, which can lead to failures.
Many "Servers" are just PCs with the appropriate operating system installed. Many have been running for years without a reboot. No problem.
Another problem is memory leaks. Some applications do not release all the memory bocks that they have requested when they are closed. Usually these lost blocks are only a few K and not of much significance. But when you leave it on 24/7. These small blocks can add up over the months leading to a memory shortage.
One of the advantages is the constant temperature of the mother board. (Contrary to popular beleif, the main reason for fans in the Base unit is to keep heat gradients across circuit boards fairly small. The actual running temperature is less important.) During boot up, some chips (DMA controller especially) can generate large amounts of heat. This causes localised heating of the circuit board in this area and thereby stresses on the board itself, which can lead to failures.
Many "Servers" are just PCs with the appropriate operating system installed. Many have been running for years without a reboot. No problem.
I have tried a small 'memory defragmentor' program which worked freeing up unused memory blocks ..
My Dell is switched on and off at least 4 times day ... I know it is not seen as best practice ... but neither is parking on the pavement !! .. Still going well over three years down the yellow brick !!
Do use 'power management' facility ... works fine !
Due a re-install tho', System.dat = 13.6 MB & User.dat = 2.27 MB
A testimony to Norton SystemWorks 'WinDoctor', non aggressively taking care of registry contents. When I ask for it, not by auto-running ...
P
My Dell is switched on and off at least 4 times day ... I know it is not seen as best practice ... but neither is parking on the pavement !! .. Still going well over three years down the yellow brick !!
Do use 'power management' facility ... works fine !
Due a re-install tho', System.dat = 13.6 MB & User.dat = 2.27 MB
A testimony to Norton SystemWorks 'WinDoctor', non aggressively taking care of registry contents. When I ask for it, not by auto-running ...
P
Leaving a modern PC on 24/7 is actually better for it. The electricity they use is negligible if it is just sitting there doing "nothing".
With the monitor off, HD spun down and no CPU intensive operations going on you are probably drawing 10-20 watts. Which means it will cost about £7 more to run each year. You will save this on reduced wear and tear, provided you keep PCs long enough to break that is!
In terms of degredation of semi-conductors, this is not a new effect. This is why precision semi-conductors (such as op-amps in very sensitive lab equipment) have time-constants on their datasheets so you know to throw away the component when it reaches a certain age. Not really a big issue in normal digital equipment.
However I can see why it would occur with smaller manufacturing processes. 65 micron CPUs are to come out in 2005, so at the current rate of development we will probably hit sub-micron chips in a decade or so. Hopefully by then they will have solved the problem!
In terms of leaving a PC on, many people do, and have no problems. The only reason I don't with mine is that my main PC is in my bedroom and I can't stand the noise! If you just want something to surf and e-mail with, might I suggest a "mini-itx" computer. These are often totally silent as they have no fans, have miniscule power consumption and are cheap to buy. The motherboard comes with everything integrated into it, and enthusiasts build their own cases. Great fun! Brilliant!
With the monitor off, HD spun down and no CPU intensive operations going on you are probably drawing 10-20 watts. Which means it will cost about £7 more to run each year. You will save this on reduced wear and tear, provided you keep PCs long enough to break that is!
In terms of degredation of semi-conductors, this is not a new effect. This is why precision semi-conductors (such as op-amps in very sensitive lab equipment) have time-constants on their datasheets so you know to throw away the component when it reaches a certain age. Not really a big issue in normal digital equipment.
However I can see why it would occur with smaller manufacturing processes. 65 micron CPUs are to come out in 2005, so at the current rate of development we will probably hit sub-micron chips in a decade or so. Hopefully by then they will have solved the problem!
In terms of leaving a PC on, many people do, and have no problems. The only reason I don't with mine is that my main PC is in my bedroom and I can't stand the noise! If you just want something to surf and e-mail with, might I suggest a "mini-itx" computer. These are often totally silent as they have no fans, have miniscule power consumption and are cheap to buy. The motherboard comes with everything integrated into it, and enthusiasts build their own cases. Great fun! Brilliant!
Okay, reading from above post I waiting to see if they're fire risk leaving the pc on 24/7. At work our pc got burnt out with burning smell but luckily there is always someone in the room. This has made me think about switching off in the future. The only thing we could think of is, inside the pc it was full of dusts including the fan which causes the pc to overheat ??????IanDB said:
That's a problem with your basic pc base units. The power supply fans use negative pressure (ie. they are fitted as extractor fans). This means that as air is sucked out, it is replaced by air through any opening it can find. (Floppy disc drive is a good one). This also means that the air coming in is not filtered.
You can get cabinets that are fitted with possitive pressure fans. These have their own filters, and therefore keep the insides nice and pristeen. They are usually used in "harsh environments" such as factories, foundaries, etc. where the dust would become a much bigger problem much sooner.
If you got one off these base units they would be much less prone to fire. (no dust to catch alight).
You can get cabinets that are fitted with possitive pressure fans. These have their own filters, and therefore keep the insides nice and pristeen. They are usually used in "harsh environments" such as factories, foundaries, etc. where the dust would become a much bigger problem much sooner.
If you got one off these base units they would be much less prone to fire. (no dust to catch alight).
The comments on unreleased memory blocks (memory leaks) can be a very real issue with some 'bad' software. Early versions of Microsoft word were prone to this. This has nothing to do with fragmentation of the hard disk, this is to do with the system RAM being constantly allocated and not deallocated properly (due to software bugs). Essentially the RAM is becoming less and less for the other applications which leads to performance slow downs. Closing applications or rebooting will free the memory.
I would take issue with the amount of power consumed in standby mode though. These are taken from http://tingilinde.typepad.com/starstuff/2004/03/pc_energy_use.html
480 watts - Asus A7M266 1GHz Athlon (no monitor)
255 watts - above in sleep mode
149 watts - Asus A7M266 1.13GHz Athlon (no monitor)
129 watts - above in sleep mode
307 watts - Dell Dimension 4600 2.8 GHz P4, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9800 video +20.1"LCD
174 watts - above in sleep mode
Where I used to work we had loads of machines (software development house) and we left them all on all the time. Some bright spark decided to measure consumption and it was much higher than expected. I've also heard that some Sony LCD monitors only save a fraction of power when in standby. It all adds up.
I would take issue with the amount of power consumed in standby mode though. These are taken from http://tingilinde.typepad.com/starstuff/2004/03/pc_energy_use.html
480 watts - Asus A7M266 1GHz Athlon (no monitor)
255 watts - above in sleep mode
149 watts - Asus A7M266 1.13GHz Athlon (no monitor)
129 watts - above in sleep mode
307 watts - Dell Dimension 4600 2.8 GHz P4, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9800 video +20.1"LCD
174 watts - above in sleep mode
Where I used to work we had loads of machines (software development house) and we left them all on all the time. Some bright spark decided to measure consumption and it was much higher than expected. I've also heard that some Sony LCD monitors only save a fraction of power when in standby. It all adds up.
Porker said ...This has nothing to do with fragmentation of the hard disk
I may be misreading the post but having previously mentioned 'defrag' I feel obliged to be more specific. Maybe unfortunate choice of words but I quote from the software I had tried :-
Windows programs use RAM (Random Access Memory) for their operations, however sometimes they fail to release the RAM after use. This means that parts of your RAM is occupied holding useless data and your computer becomes slow.
The process of freeing the memory (RAM) is called memory (RAM) defrag
certainly more memory was released, confirmed by other utilities.
Edit 28-7-04
Did the mem defrag after running and closing Excel :-
07-28-04 14:13:43 Starting Free Memory: 394624 KB
07-28-04 14:13:43 Allocating Memory..
07-28-04 14:14:02 Deallocating Memory..
07-28-04 14:14:04 Ending Free Memory: 520148 KB
Voila !!
P
I may be misreading the post but having previously mentioned 'defrag' I feel obliged to be more specific. Maybe unfortunate choice of words but I quote from the software I had tried :-
Windows programs use RAM (Random Access Memory) for their operations, however sometimes they fail to release the RAM after use. This means that parts of your RAM is occupied holding useless data and your computer becomes slow.
The process of freeing the memory (RAM) is called memory (RAM) defrag
certainly more memory was released, confirmed by other utilities.
Edit 28-7-04
Did the mem defrag after running and closing Excel :-
07-28-04 14:13:43 Starting Free Memory: 394624 KB
07-28-04 14:13:43 Allocating Memory..
07-28-04 14:14:02 Deallocating Memory..
07-28-04 14:14:04 Ending Free Memory: 520148 KB
Voila !!
P
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2scoops0406
TexMex said:
Appropriate being the operative word.
Can I just point out that the "tingilinde" link is to a webpage written by a Mac enthusiast? 
And therefore the power readings for Windows PCs are very likely biased? I.e. it was most likely with maximum powersaving for the Macs and a very unsleeplike sleep state for the Windows boxes.
This website gives a less, well, WRONG picture!
However, if you build a low-power PC with the mini-itx boards I linked to, you can get full-on power requirements in the 10-15 watt region. Not including monitor, obviously. The standby figures for such computers are no doubt 5 watts or so. Plus you can run a proper OS on it instead of Mac OS
And therefore the power readings for Windows PCs are very likely biased? I.e. it was most likely with maximum powersaving for the Macs and a very unsleeplike sleep state for the Windows boxes.This website gives a less, well, WRONG picture!
However, if you build a low-power PC with the mini-itx boards I linked to, you can get full-on power requirements in the 10-15 watt region. Not including monitor, obviously. The standby figures for such computers are no doubt 5 watts or so. Plus you can run a proper OS on it instead of Mac OS
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AdamW said:Plus you can run a proper OS on it instead of Mac OS
I presume you mean linux and not windoze!
Firstly I'm not a Mac user. But the results on the site I linked to are not necessarily wrong just because the guy likes his Mac's. I agree there are plenty of machines (especially newer models) which have very low standby settings but from my own experience it is easy to think that the machine is consuming very little when in fact this is not the case.
On the safety note - my PC went bang about a month ago. The PSU had failed and I temporarily got a small flame out of the back where the fan grille is. Only for a second but the failure mode of these switched mode supplies is often a short circuit across the semiconductors. It had taken the internal fuse out AND the one in the plug, which was correctly fused. Since then I have been wary of leaving the machine on overnight. When I dismantled the PSU it was full of dust which I guess goes back to that negative air pressure effect.
On the safety note - my PC went bang about a month ago. The PSU had failed and I temporarily got a small flame out of the back where the fan grille is. Only for a second but the failure mode of these switched mode supplies is often a short circuit across the semiconductors. It had taken the internal fuse out AND the one in the plug, which was correctly fused. Since then I have been wary of leaving the machine on overnight. When I dismantled the PSU it was full of dust which I guess goes back to that negative air pressure effect.
like most things these days it boils down to quality of build, components used,age of equipment, quality of electricity supply etc etc therefore it is hard to say whether your pc will be ok left on indefinitely, switching equipment on and off continuously does have drawbacks as components are put under stress, in the end it's up to the individual as to whether they feel safe leaving something on and their view will probably not change until a particular piece of equipment causes their house to burn down.
I think it can only be prudent to switch off equipment when away from your property for any length of time such as when on holiday.
as for porker's PSU failure wonder if that was a crowbar protection that failed to take out the fuse in time for some reason? say the fuse rating/ type was wrongly spec'd?
I think it can only be prudent to switch off equipment when away from your property for any length of time such as when on holiday.
as for porker's PSU failure wonder if that was a crowbar protection that failed to take out the fuse in time for some reason? say the fuse rating/ type was wrongly spec'd?