Peeling paint

[JadeF]

Hi

We recently has the bedroom walls skimmed and left the plaster for about a week before doing a mist coat. We used watered down leylands (I’m not sure on the exact ratio, but I was super generous with the water to be on the safe side), and did 2 coats of this.

It was left like this for weeks before we did a top coat using Farrow & Ball (I know...please don’t judge me ). We did 2 coats of F&B and 24 hours later the paint is peeling off! I don’t mean a little, I mean you can literally pull strips off paint clean off the wall (the mist coat underneath seems uneffected) so clearly it hasn’t binded at all.

This is the third room we’ve had skimmed, mist coated etc. But the first we’ve had this problem with. This is also the only room we have used F&B in, the others we used dulux, so I’m inclined to think it’s the paint.

As you probably know, F&B ain’t cheap stuff! So I’m fuming! I want to give them a call, but thought I’d just check to see if anyone has any experience with this before I potentially make a tit of myself

 

[KenGMac]

JadeF, good evening.

Below is an article that may?? assist?? OK it is not a new post on that site, but may assist with answers and a heads up as to how to handle F&B


http://www.painterspitstop.com/threads/rookie-error-farrow-and-ball-emulsion.8348/

Ken

 

[JadeF]

@KenGMac thanks. I came across this earlier whilst I was frantically googling! If it is a case of we were supposed to use their own brand primer first, I won’t be happy. It’s not at all made clear the consequences of not doing that when buying it!

 

[daggermark]

Is the leylands you used a matt emulsion rather than silk? Just checking!

It's very likely to be the F&B, and they will never admit any fault if you didn't use their primer.

 

[JadeF]

The leylands we used is matt emulsion. I called my plasterer this morning and explained what we had done so far. He seems to think it’s the F&B and can’t see any issue with what we have done re. the mist coat. I called F&B this morning, they suggested I try another coat watered down. I explained that both coats we had applied had been thinned slightly. Their suggestion so far is it’s a compatibility issue with the leylands, because their paint has less synthetics in it....apparently. They’ve said I can send some pics in, which I will, although I don’t expect it to go anywhere!

 

[opps]

I have never found F&B's technical support to be anything other than condescending.

In their defence though... thinning the first coat of F&B may work. Mist coats should not be "generously" watered down. The Leyland should have been mixed with 10% water (as per the instructions on the back of the tin).

A mist coat is supposed to reduce the level of suction in the new plaster. if you add too much water, the mist coat just soaks in to the plaster and does nothing for the level of suction, if you don't use any water, the water in the paint get sucked into the wall rather than evaporating off as the paint dries.

Over thinning paint is a messy waste of time and money. I have no idea why so many people recommend making the paint so thin. I have always wondered if it was originally spread by tight fisted bodgers, the kind of people that are related to the muppets who recommend using dilute PVA on new plaster. Water based paints cure using a principle called coalescence. As the water evaporates off, the paint molecules shrink down and bond. If too much water soaks in to the plaster the coalescence fails. If too much water is added to the paint, the coalescence fails.

In short, you haven't really applied a mist coat, you just put white water on the walls (twice).

Cost wise, it may (or may not) be cheaper to mix a proper leyland mist coat and then two full fat coats of F&B, rather than one dilute F&B followed by two full fat F&B.

Without wanting to sound like I am being condescending, I really would recommend that you follow the instructions on the back of tin rather than blindly following advice from plasters or people on the internet. Admittedly there are times when you can deviate from the instructions on the tin (eg using household ammonia rather than meths to clean brushes used with Zinsser BIN shellac paint or adding Owatrol to oil based paints) but with something as straight forward as thinning paints the manufacturer is best placed to advise.

 

[JadeF]

Thanks oops. To clarify, I haven’t ‘blindly’ followed advice from people on the internet, because everyone on the internet has a different option. And of course, why wouldn’t I follow the advice of my plasterer? He is the professional after all. But thanks for your input.

 

[opps]

Thanks oops. To clarify, I haven’t ‘blindly’ followed advice from people on the internet, because everyone on the internet has a different option. And of course, why wouldn’t I follow the advice of my plasterer? He is the professional after all. But thanks for your input.

Sorry Jade, my post was poorly phrased. I fully understand why one would trust a plasterer when they tell you to (over) dilute paint. I just wish they wouldn't do it. Fortunately, fewer seem to recommend priming bare with PVA these days.