Polypipes - are pipe stiffeners really needed?

[r_c]

We are having the entire plumbing replaced, and the plumber is using polypipe (Polyplumb) for the central heating pipes. I don't have a problem with plastic pipes being used in place of copper pipes (we will have copper tails). But I am finding that many 'corners' are being cut. For example, where there is insulation on the pipes, under the downstairs floating floor, he has only used felt and no foam (okay, maybe this is just a difference of opinion on felt vs form). He does not seem to have used many clips (actually I'm yet to find one!).

I've just read that pipe stiffeners are part of the Polyplumb system, and am sceptical that he has used these. How important are they? Is this something easy for me to check, and is it worth insisting that they are used? (I am having to pick my fights … so is this one worth it?)




http://www.polypipe.com/sites/default/files/Polypipe_Installation_Guide_PolyPlumb_web.pdf

"Step 2: Use of pipe stiffener Insert a pipe stiffener into the pipe (not required on copper pipe). Pipe stiffeners are an integral part of the joint when using Polypipe grey pipe with either PolyPlumb fittings or compression fittings and need to be fully inserted in to the pipe end. Polypipe offer two types of pipe stiffener to be used with PolyPlumb fittings - metal and plastic. When using a pipe stiffener, ensure it is fully inserted before applying the fitting."

 

[Steelmasons]

Ask him if he is using inserts....simples.
If you have your doubts then ask them to pack up and leave.
What answers are you hoping for?..you are well aware that inserts should be fitted so what advice are you seeking.

 

[Aquaheat]

In short Yes they are required on plastic to plastic and compression to plastic joints. Without the inserts the system will be seriously at risk of leaks and possibly fittings blowing off under pressure.

Unfortunately There is no easy way to check as these fittings are non de-mountable and require the fitting to be taken apart to remove. It can then not be used again as the grab rings will have been compromised. If no inserts have been used then it is a case of ripping all the joints out and starting again I'm afraid!!

I suggest you talk to your installer or see if you can find a bag of inserts anywhere or the packaging for them.

Jon

 

[psyflux]

I agree with the above. I accidentally fitted some joints without inserts and they tended to seep ever so slightly. Popped in the insert and no a drip since.

 

[HootingOwl]

How did you find this plumber? Recommended by someone? It sounds like you could have done a better job yourself.
Inserts are essential.
Are you using barrier pipe for the heating?

 

[r_c]

Recommended by someone?

Yes the architect. (But if anyone recognises my username, you will have realised by now how much faith I have in him with all my many other posts.)

Are you using barrier pipe for the heating?

I have seen that printed on the pipe in at least one spot. A step in the right direction at last, phew! I will check all piping tonight.

There is no easy way to check as these fittings are non de-mountable

How about I buy a couple of Polyplumb elbows and trees from Wickes and ask him to remove a few random joints and replace with the newly bought ones? Would that be a suitable way to check? Would you be p***ed-off if your client asked you to do that? It's just that he's not clipped anything, and has been stingy with insulation .... so what else is there??

Thank you all so much for your answers and explaining everything.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Would you be p***ed-off if your client asked you to do that?

More than happy for a customer to ask questions and whatnot of my work as I don't often screw up. Being asked to spot check work like that would push my patience, but most tradesman would not be in a position to worry over the quality of their work.


Ultimately you're paying and you need piece of mind. If the work is half as bad as you describe I'd be wanting it ripped out anyway.

 

[oilboffin]

If he's getting stroppy I'd be smelling a rat my customers can ask me anything so long as it's not for money

 

[ajstoneservices]

http://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/forum-rules-general-info.19448/

 

[HootingOwl]

Ar-kee-tekt creaming off a percehtage and recommending clowns who can't win their own work

 

[adlplumbing]

Yes they do, no way of checking without removing the fitting, unless it leaks then he has not used them.
Then again it already been said

 

[r_c]

I had a look last night at a joint. The system is not fully installed so I could unscrewed a cap and saw that there was an insert. I've got a bit more faith in him now.

How the **** is it that you have ended up with a dodgy builder, carpenter, window fitter and plumber. Could be that you are a fookng dick.

I'm just going by what I have been told on this forum from my other posts:

• Gas pipe installed within 150mm of two sockets and against electrical cable.
  
• Electrical cables outside of safe zone.
  
• New extension, uncovered cavity wall insulation is now soaked
  
• Wall not fully supported by RSJ
  
• New pipework not clipped, insulated with felt not foam

Thanks to everyone for all the advice given so far. You've been invaluable and reassuring.

 

[Agile]

It is unusual for anyone to use felt insulation now.

It is flammable to an extent and I would expect the insulation value to be lower than foam.

I use it flat to line joist cutouts.

Tony

 

[Agile]

All heating pipes under suspended floors SHOULD be insulated.

But I have to say that that those I see fitted during the last 15 years are less likely to have been insulated.