Possible rogue please help me

[Harvey1231]

Hi all, advice would be really appreciated.

We have a decorator here at the moment and he has charged loads of money so far and as it was an estimate (7.1k)for a 2 bedroom small house, has no hallway, just a front room, kitchen, small bathroom, upstairs landing and 2 airing cupboards and a staircase to paint and has said now on top of the 5 weeks he has taken it will be another 2 and will offer us 50% off and charge 1350 to finish the job, but we are concerned about his work after talking with a neighbour.

In the first bedroom he did all sanding ect then the paint all came off the walls as it had never been primed he said when house was built so he spent a couple of days then removing it all, then lined it all with lining paper which took him about 6 days total work, then painted and the room looks lovely, the paint is all flat and smooth.

Then doing the other rooms he said to try to avoid us any extra costs he would try to ensure not much more paint came off and filled and sanded ect as expected, but not sure if he sanded all of the walls where there wasn't filler or not. The walls do not feel flat and smooth, instead they feel all bumpy and rough to the touch with lots of obvious bits lumps and bumps all around.

I asked him about it and he said there is nothing you can do because it's how the wall is, but talking with a neighbour I am concerned now he has done a bad job, I took the pictures when the rooms were dark so sorry about that and the walls are tivoli blue little green intelligent paint ie top quality (he provided it)

 

[Harvey1231]

Have attached a few more pictures now it's sunnier so you can see better

 

[opps]

6 days to line one room? It should take about 1 day.

If the existing walls have really heavy orange peel (paint build up), I normally recommend lining them, however, before lining, I thoroughly sand the walls first, filling as required.

In your images, a decent random orbital sander should have been able to smooth the walls.

Based in London, I charge about £1000 for largish room, but I aim to provide a much higher quality of finish. Where are you based? Photos of the cutting in would be useful- granted you showed one, and frankly, it wasn't very good.

Based on what I have seen, I would not recommend him...

 

[Harvey1231]

Cutting in pictures, these are all areas he has totally finished doing except any errors that we point out to him he said he will make right.

Unfortunately we are in Boston Lincolnshire and he was the most expensive decorator by Miles with a dust less sander system and nvqs in painting, been painting for over 20 years and he says he's got ocd and hes a perfectionist and everything will be totally perfect ect.

He spent 3 days in first room filling and sanding ect, then he noticed the paint was peeling away and loose on the wall so he removed it all then lined ect and that room looks totally perfect, flat walls and really professional, but then he said it's going to be loads of extra money because it was only an estimate so he will need to charge lots more because so much work to do and he was saying he needs to be finished ASAP because he has external work to do.

Friday he took all of his tools and left only the paint trays and paint here and said he would charge us £2750 extra because the house was so long to do but as we have limited income he's happy to sette for 1350, paying him 300 cash a month until it's done and that the house is finished except for a couple of cupboards, the stairs and any imperfections we find and he's been off all week with a bad back with all of his tools.

He was expecting to come round today for the first £300 and said he would do what is left when his back heals, but we are worried he won't ever give us a good finish, already paid him the 7100.

 

[opps]

I suspect that he has taken his tools because he is worried that you might keep them as leverage.

That work is awful. Sorry.

IMG_20240606_124619.jpg Why isn't the paint work flat? Why is there grit in the finish?

I can only advise that you get quotes to rectify his work and then consider going through the small claims court.

Was he recommended or did you find him through one of the MyBuilder types of site?

A few years ago, without my knowledge, my other half used My Builder to find someone to redo one of our bathrooms. She didn't want to have to wait for me to find a slot in my calendar. The guy had done some tiny jobs for her and convinced her that he excelled at bathrooms. She paid him up about £3K upfront for the materials. In the meantime she recommended him to my stepson. The guy, Toby Smith of Hatfield, did awful work for my stepson that I had to rectify.

In the meantime, he brazenly kept the £3k. We considered taking him to court but discovered that he had several CCJs and that when the bailiffs turned up at the address that he listed (his horse drawn caravan loving) parents said that he doesn't live there.

 

[Harvey1231]

Bloody hell . Annoying situation.

Luckily he seems to be insured through dulux, hes listed on their website as all work guarenteed for 24 months ect.

Im not sure why its not flat and also why there is grit in it, we have told him we are not happy with it and he is going to come tommorow to look it over and said he will sort it all out, so will see what happens and go from there, thanks a lot for your help

 

[opps]

I think it might help others if you provide links to the fellow.

As fair as I am aware, your post will be covered under UK law as "fair comment". I do not expect the moderators to delete it unless his pockets are deep enough to take legal action- as an aside, if you were to set up a site such as the one that I linked to earlier, that, as Google blog, is covered by the First Amendment in the USA. It would be prohibitively expensive for him to issue a cease and desist.

Ultimately, all you have done is say that you are not happy with the work. I am a professional decorator. If I was as pants as him, I would consider a career change.

Best of luck.

 

[opps]

Bloody hell . Annoying situation.

Luckily he seems to be insured through dulux, hes listed on their website as all work guarenteed for 24 months ect.

Im not sure why its not flat and also why there is grit in it, we have told him we are not happy with it and he is going to come tommorow to look it over and said he will sort it all out, so will see what happens and go from there, thanks a lot for your help

It might be worthwhile talking to them, but I suspect that the products are covered rather than the quality of his work.

Ultimately, yeah, you need to give him a chance to put things right (from the court's perspective), but based on the photos, it is going to be expensive for him to do that. Does he have a VAT number (probably not as a sole trader decorator)?

The more info you can provide, will, hopefully help others.

 

[Harvey1231]

it does say this:

I am City & Guilds/NVQ qualified, insured and a member of the "Painting & Decorating Association".

no vat number though

 

[opps]

Cutting in pictures, these are all areas he has totally finished doing except any errors that we point out to him he said he will make right.

Unfortunately we are in Boston Lincolnshire and he was the most expensive decorator by Miles with a dust less sander system and nvqs in painting, been painting for over 20 years and he says he's got ocd and hes a perfectionist and everything will be totally perfect ect.

Only two of the images of the cutting in look acceptable (IMO).

Perfectionist? I am always sceptical when a tradesman comes out with that line. A perfectionist should know that perfection is unattainable. I have never walked away from a job and thought that my finish is perfect. I have to set practical benchmarks- I walk away thinking "yeah it looks good- and better than a finish provided by most other tradesmen (at the price point)", but never perfect.

All of my powered sanders are connected to dust extractors (read: vacuum cleaners), I even have Mirka hand sanders that are connected to my dust extractors. I am glad that your fellow had dust extraction, but these days, that should be a given, but unfortunately it isn't.

With regards to paint peeling off- probably not his fault- it is often down to the previously applied pain not having been sufficiently thinned over the plaster.

Given your location, the prices you are paying sound very high.

I hope that a fellow decorator such as @Wayners contributes to the post. I don't like maligning fellow tradesmen, but equally, I don't like to see people being shafted.

 

[Wayners]

If I was taking on a job like that I'd suggest we start with one or two rooms and see how it goes.
I always liked to build a good working relationship with the customer and make sure they were happy with my work before committing to all the work.
When you get confidence with each other, everything is much easier.
As for surfaces this would need to be discussed.
Sanding alone may not be enough to give a smooth surface but this needs to be sorted early on.
Sanding. Wall smoother. Lining paper or get it skimmed.
This would need to be discussed on the first few days of the work commencing if things aren't working out.
As for the finish now it don't look great.
What was discussed in the beginning?

 

[Harvey1231]

Sorry for the late reply, have been extremely busy the last couple of days.

What happened from the start was we told him he wanted a very high quality job with only little greene intelligent paint as we only wanted decorating doing once that would last us many years, ie to a high standard with longevity. We also made it clear at the start and throught the job on a couple of occasions that the reason we hired him (he was more expensive than others) was because of how skilled he was and because we wanted the best possible quality of work

He sent across an estimate for 9kish and 5 weeks, we didn't actually read the smallprint as closely as we should of done in the estimate which states it might end up being more expensive if extra work ect but I will attach those pictures to this post in a few minutes.

He started 15th April, then next day on 16th he sent a message to us saying he wasn't expecting this, with pictures of all the paint off the walls on the floor, so it was only 2nd day at this stage. We assumed it was a good thing but he told us it wasn't as it means lots extra work. He informed us that no mist coat was ever on the walls and it's likely been that way since the house had been built and likely every wall will be that way.

He then had the skirting boards to sort out as they were loose on the wall and some came off with the paint, then he filled, sanded, lined the walls and painted. 2 weeks after he started, that bedroom was completed. The bedroom is approximately 3. 5m x 5m and is the bigger one. The walls looked great none of the weird texture, although we have now noticed there is grit in the paint on walls and woodwork as it is sharp in places when rubbing hand along it.

We were still getting along great, talking with him, messaging on WhatsApp ect.

He then said to us because the bedroom took so long it's going to be extra and he thinks the rest of the house will likely be as well, he said 500 extra for the 1 room but he will reduce it to 250,not knowing anything about decorating we agreed to repay him at 300 a month until all the extras were paid. We reiterated to him we were happy to pay extra if the job is great quality as we don't mind paying more for top quality and don't want corners to be cut.

He then moved onto 2nd bedroom and told us that although the paint was almost definitely loose on other walls (paint was thick too in first room he said) that instead of removing all the paint and lining like the first room, he would be really careful and sand the absolute minimum he can so that the paint doesn't fall off and told us it would still be great and save us extra money and time. We told him as long as its still a top quality job that will last for many years and it's done properly then that is fine.

He then finished second bedroom 8th may, so 3 weeks after he started, this is a tiny bedroom, 3.2m long, 2.5m wide. After he had finished the second bedroom we noticed the bad walls, all the bumps and stuff on them and I pointed it out to him and he just said you cant do anything about that, it's just how the walls are . Not knowing anything about decorating I just said OK, but was really disappointed because I was hoping and expected that paying this much and top quality paint to have a good finish.

He then moved onto other things and he kept finding the peeling paint but kept most of it on the walls, saying hes going to be as careful as possible to not sand it much so it doesnt fall off the walls as in the second bedroom and didn't line any walls. He also told us the stairs they had just painted straight on top of varnish without sanding the varnish so like the walls the paint was just sitting on top of the varnish and how bad it all is, all this time he kept saying how he needs to be finished soon to start external jobs and acting frustrated.

He told us if we had an unlimited budget ie 5 to 10k more money than the over 7k we had already paid him (he wanted cash every friday over the 5 weeks and he was there 7 weeks, but he did take a week off in total for moving house ect, so we just paid him all of it over 5 weeks as initially agreed) he could do everything properly but as we are on a low income he's just going to have to do the stairs the best he can. I reminded him that that is fine, but only if it's top quality while saving time, reminding him we don't mind paying whatever it costs to get it the best it can be but can only pay 300 monthly.

Then we are now at the present. He told us he's having a week off with a bad back and we owe him the 2850 but he is halving it for us to 1350 at 300 a month because in total the job is 7 weeks after he comes back to fix the snags, then we had an electrician over who's father in law is a decorator and we told him it's just been decorated and he said things like, I hope he was a really cheap one, it's rubbish and we told him the price ect and he was flabbergasted and pointed out loads of bad things just in the one room, which was the point I posted on the forum.

The decorator is coming round again tomorrow and said he will sort everything out apparently lol.

If he had told us that not lining the walls would make it bad then we would of told him no, but he assured us it would be good still, we just trusted him because of course with all his experience and paining nvq and master guild stuff ect he would know what he was talking about, he has lots of qualifications and is dulux select verified plus lots of great reviews ect. Our suspicion is because he knew he would be waiting a while for extra money and he wanted to get onto other jobs that he rushed it unfortunately, but when you are already paying over 7k, lots more than anyone else its not what you expect, we saved up for a long time to be able to afford him.

 

[Harvey1231]

Theres also obvious grit in the banister too on stairs like there is in the walls and other woodwork. It just seems to us with the grit in all the paint, even the perfect looking ones in the bedroom plus the lack of lining and sanding of the bad previous paint is going to mean starting from scratch again

 

[Harvey1231]

Also we never saw him washing any surfaces. The woodwork was sand, then coat with a coat of the little greene wood paint, followed by another coat a day or 2 later, the walls were filling, sanding mainly on the filler, then paint, 2 hours later paint 1 more coat, except the kitchen which he said needed extra coats

 

[Harvey1231]

i have attached the 2 files of the agreement and the scope of work. bedroom 1 is the large one, bedroom 2 is the smaller one that he did second and didnt line or anything but said the walls are just that way ect