Powering smart "switch" from existing switch.

[ismellrainbows]

Hi!
The store I am buying my smart switches from claims that I can do a false 2nd gang switch by without needing extra wiring to a light, but just tapping into power from the existing light switch. I was wondering if anyone knew how I would go about wiring this.

I have made a diagram to explain what I am trying to do.

Before you ask, yes, it seems overkill for some shelf LED's when I can just stick a battery-powered smart button on the wall, but I am also trying to achieve two-way stair lighting using smart multi-switch association, which would otherwise be IMPOSSIBLE to wire.

 

[Mottie]

Where will the power to the led be coming from? All my smart bulbs in lamps are permanently switched on and my hive just tells them to switch on or off.

 

[ericmark]

My old smart switches (Energenie) passed current through the bulb when off, just a small amount, to power the switch, and they need a load of at least 5 watt. My new smart switches (TP-Link) have a battery in them, and can switch any load even if not 230 volt. The old ones did have an option of a second switch hard wired, the new ones no hard wired option. Both could use remote unit to switch them.

The kinetic range allows switching with what looks like a standard wall switch, using the energy of moving the switch to get the power to switch a relay, but these are not what I would call smart switches, they are not as far as I know programmable or linked to phone.

One can get buttons wifi linked to switches, or relays, but you need power to the lamp. I use a relay for my landing light, because the location of the switches is not really where I want them. It is also hard wired with a extra low voltage system. but to be frank hardly ever use the manual switches. I use voice commands with google Nest Mini's.

The problem is no two are the same, each has plus and minus points, which are hard to find out about until you buy them. Nearly all need a hub, reason for this is wifi is energy hungry, so using zigbee or other hubs means the devices need less energy to work, so batteries last longer, and bulbs can be smaller without glowing when off etc. So I have ended up with 4 hubs, one needs to be hard wired to router, other three just need mains supply, two double as door bells.

The old Energenie could only have three programmed on/off's unless using ITTT, but does work on the PC direct, the rest need emulators to work with PC they are designed to work with phone or tablet. The TP-Link has dust and dawn functions, and one can program an off or on without having the reverse. So it can be programmed to turn off all lights at 9 am or midnight without any auto on, so it turns off light if you forget.

Bulbs will often allow colour changing and dimming, where switches and relays are simple on/off. The TP-link switch would turn a 12 volt bulb on/off, but most need 230 volt.

You don't make it plain what you are after.

 

[ismellrainbows]

Where will the power to the led be coming from? All my smart bulbs in lamps are permanently switched on and my hive just tells them to switch on or off.

Hi Mottie,

so for shelf, closet and stair tread mini LED's, they are just connected to mains via a smart plug. I can switch them off via alexa, but my wife insists on a physical button. I was thinking of just adding an extra batt-powered button on the wall, but if I am buying/replacing all the switches to smart switches, then if it has the option to have the 'button' within the switch, i.e. a second gang that is permanently powered on, and acts as a wifi-switch as opposed to a wired switch, then might as well and would look neater.

For the actual stair lights (downlights), I have one upstairs that is two-way, i.e. can be switched on/off both from the downstairs and upstairs switch, but I also have a downstairs light that is only switched on from the downstairs switch. If I can change the upstairs switch to 2-gang and use as a smart 2-gang, that would be awesome.

 

[ismellrainbows]

My old smart switches (Energenie) passed current through the bulb when off, just a small amount, to power the switch, and they need a load of at least 5 watt. My new smart switches (TP-Link) have a battery in them, and can switch any load even if not 230 volt. The old ones did have an option of a second switch hard wired, the new ones no hard wired option. Both could use remote unit to switch them.

The kinetic range allows switching with what looks like a standard wall switch, using the energy of moving the switch to get the power to switch a relay, but these are not what I would call smart switches, they are not as far as I know programmable or linked to phone.

One can get buttons View attachment 326588 View attachment 326589wifi linked to switches, or relays, but you need power to the lamp. I use a relay View attachment 326590 for my landing light, because the location of the switches is not really where I want them. It is also hard wired with a extra low voltage system. but to be frank hardly ever use the manual switches. I use voice commands with google Nest Mini's.

The problem is no two are the same, each has plus and minus points, which are hard to find out about until you buy them. Nearly all need a hub, reason for this is wifi is energy hungry, so using zigbee or other hubs means the devices need less energy to work, so batteries last longer, and bulbs can be smaller without glowing when off etc. So I have ended up with 4 hubs, one needs to be hard wired to router, other three just need mains supply, two double as door bells.

The old Energenie could only have three programmed on/off's unless using ITTT, but does work on the PC direct, the rest need emulators to work with PC they are designed to work with phone or tablet. The TP-Link has dust and dawn functions, and one can program an off or on without having the reverse. So it can be programmed to turn off all lights at 9 am or midnight without any auto on, so it turns off light if you forget.

Bulbs will often allow colour changing and dimming, where switches and relays are simple on/off. The TP-link switch would turn a 12 volt bulb on/off, but most need 230 volt.

You don't make it plain what you are after.

Hi Eric,
thanks for the info! that was useful!

so basically, I can switch my lights on/off via alexa, but my wife insists on a physical button for guests etc.

I explained a bit about what I am after to Mottie's post above, but essentially, I want to permanently power the second gang of a light iwtch, so that it acts as a wifi switch.

So for example, at the stairs, my downstairs light is only 1-way wired, i.e. only can be switched on/off from the downstairs switch. I want to replace my upstairs switch to a two-gang, and have the second gang permenantly wired on, and act only via wifi switch.

 

[Mottie]

so for shelf, closet and stair tread mini LED's, they are just connected to mains via a smart plug. I can switch them off via alexa, but my wife insists on a physical button

Isn’t there a physical button on the smart plug? Better still, do away with the smart plug and plug them into a normal socket and switch it on and off as required. Seems to me you are looking to complicate things.