Primatic cylinder issues

[Goosedgranny]

I may be a granny and I am definitely now goosed and really do now wish I did not have a primatic cylinder tank but I do. The house I bought is ex council and the system had always worked well with the exception of air locks every time it needed drained for any repairs.
I had a new boiler installed 7 years ago, and the plumbers were old skool and convinced me that easiest and most affordable way was to go like for like and not bother with a combi. I took them at their word, replaced boiler and nearly all radiators and all was well...until a couple of weeks ago. I discovered a leak (well, I discovered a hole in my kitchen ceiling at 5am and then the leak!) which was below the floorboards upstairs in the airing cupboard where the hot water tank is housed. Needless to say I was onto my 3rd plumber before I could get someone familiar with the old system and with the time to drain and repair. They drained down system (from downstairs radiator), cut and replaced the leaking pipe (joint at manifold) and then refilled. Heating is all working great but I have issues with hot water not heating very well.

I lost water pressure to the hot taps upstairs and I obviously had an airlock, so found time after a couple of days to push water back through via mixer tap and restored pressure. Excitedly ran a bath in 10 minutes (was 40 minutes after initial repair) only to have to fly in and out of it in record time as it was merely warm. The water is not brown, so I don't think there's a problem with bubble and appreciate the likelihood of silt/sludge upon refill. I have taken plumbers advice and cranked up the thermostat on the tank to full and have boiler on constantly as he thinks this will help -I don't think so though. Pipes from tank are hot, but tank itself is cold and water continues to be warm but not hot. Dreading the impact on bill for having boiler running constantly too

The repair was carried out under a package, so the plumber has fulfilled their part in fixing the leak. They also returned the next day as I was concerned about whistling and smell from boiler (bear in mind everything was working fine even with the leak, heating, hot water etc). He then realised a black pipe from what I believe to be the condensate trap wasn't in properly and then snapped the condensate pipe, but quickly replaced this. the noise has stopped but the smell is still there. He assures me it isn't gas (in fact, said he couldn't smell it but friends and family can) and I have a carbon monoxide detector that is showing no concern.

I have no spare cash, can't consider replacing everything and would be super grateful for any advice on easy steps I can do to try and regain hot water and long, lingering baths and any tips re the smell from boiler. Any help from anyone familiar with the joys and woes of primatic cylinders (and yes, it is definitely a primatic cylinder and is fed by gravity from cold water tank in loft, I know, I know) might just make this granny's christmas break a bit less stressful.

Thanks in advance and sorry for long post but read so many posts with lots of people asking "are you sure it's primatic" or just advising to "get rid" which really isn't an option right now.

 

[terryplumb]

Dont you have a back up immersion heater in the cylinder ?

 

[Goosedgranny]

It has never worked although I am just about to go check again. Thought I could rely on that a few years ago when pump needed replacing and sadly found out then the switch appears to be purely decoration now!

 

[terryplumb]

Have you got any electrical testing instruments ,such as a multimeter ?
You need to establish if the switch has a supply,and if it does test the immersions element and thermostat.
Also show us pics of pipework around the cylinder.

 

[Goosedgranny]

Thanks for chipping in here Terry -much appreciated. I don't have a multimeter but I remembered I did get a new fuse box since the last time I tried the immerser, so I've clicked it on just in case (doesn't light up but I will remain hopeful for my sanity). Sadly my phone almost died on me so won't let me use flash until I charge it, so can't get pics right now (either plumber or granddaughter have acquired my torch!)

I did have a random flashback to a setting on an 'actuator? switch' that solved an issue with hot water before. Not sure if that is the right name, sorry, but a wee grey box with a lever that can go to 3 different settings, but I can't remember which it was before. It's under the boiler and really a long shot, but my brain is in overdrive, harking back to days of yore when I could fix everything by clearing airlocks! I highly suspect it's a sludgy tank after being drained and being old (bit like myself). Will get pics up later. My plumber has just dropped me a message to ask if my heating is ok (it is) so hopefully he hasn't fully given up on me!

 

[Goosedgranny]

So first pic shows pipes coming into tank. The stopcock on left pipe appears to be gubbed but was also apparently gubbed before repair (when everything was working). Second pic is pipe coming from tank. White pipe was replaced when boiler went in (due to sludge in old pipe) and runs from tank on landing approx 3 metres to boiler in bedroom. Third pic gave me concern at first, earthing wire not fully connected, but as far as I can see there is enough locked in and it is only to earth...Am I correct?

 

[Goosedgranny]

And then the wee grey box that the settings seemed to matter once upon a time in a land far,far away, where boilers didn't smell and baths were like lava...

 

[Goosedgranny]

Is there any, any, any chance that an airlock is still a problem. If so, I'm happy to push more water back through but feel it's pointless now?

 

[terryplumb]

The earth conductors need attention,and re connecting properly.
There are 2 motorised valves ,both missing covers, may or may not be working.
You are going to need a plumber to visit to establish why your hot water isn't getting hot enough. Air locks in the domestic hot water distribution pipework would result in a low flow of water from hot taps but not a low temperature. Air locks in the heat exchanger within the cylinder may do though.

 

[ianmcd]

Post more pics of your cylinder especially if it has a label show us that, I doubt very much that is a primatic cylinder, do you have a small tank and a large tank in the loft ?

 

[Goosedgranny]

The earth conductors need attention,and re connecting properly.
There are 2 motorised valves ,both missing covers, may or may not be working.
You are going to need a plumber to visit to establish why your hot water isn't getting hot enough. Air locks in the domestic hot water distribution pipework would result in a low flow of water from hot taps but not a low temperature. Air locks in the heat exchanger within the cylinder may do though.

Thanks Terry -hopeful the plumber will be in touch again today, I can pretty much confirm with him it is pointless turning up thermostat on tank and leaving demand on (and can't take the smell much longer).
Yeah, I got water pressure back up which was only when I realised just how cool the hot water is. First bath I ran I presumed it took so long it was just cooling by the time it filled.
I remember the plumber who fitted the boiler had to replace a pump at same time for the water and believe the right hand valve was fitted at same time too, but never had covers. Think I'll need to buy a big ass kettle for now!!

 

[Goosedgranny]

Post more pics of your cylinder especially if it has a label show us that, I doubt very much that is a primatic cylinder, do you have a small tank and a large tank in the loft ?

There's no header tank, it IS a primatic cylinder, cursed by every plumber under 50 that has been in the property and the reason it took 3 plumbers to get someone familiar with system and willing to take the job. It is fed directly from cold tank in loft.

 

[gas112]

There's no header tank, it IS a primatic cylinder, cursed by every plumber under 50 that has been in the property and the reason it took 3 plumbers to get someone familiar with system and willing to take the job. It is fed directly from cold tank in loft.

so primatic and its fully pumped (it can be done) where is your pump fitted ?
as for that 1/2 inch white plastic pipe in pic two are you saying that is the return out of the cylinder ?

 

[Goosedgranny]

so primatic and its fully pumped (it can be done) where is your pump fitted ?
as for that 1/2 inch white plastic pipe in pic two are you saying that is the return out of the cylinder ?

The pump is at boiler (in bedroom) and the white pipe runs between boiler and tank and was put in when boiler was installed due to silt in previous pipe.

 

[cross thread]

If it’s a primatic it may have a air bleed valve on the side of the cylinder.