How are all the proponents of PR feeling now with regards to the votes that Reform seem to be going to pick up in the GE?
Proportional representation.
- Thread starter Mottie
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I think people’s views will change a lot over the next 5 years …..
The first pass the post system doesn't really represent the will of the people.
A party could win with a very small percentage in theory.
But even the proportional representation has his faults.
Just look at other European countries where after the parties slaughter one another, soon after the elections they become friends and form coalition governments.
I believe there should be elections with all parties separate and then the first 2 should go to the "final" where the party with 50%+ of the votes gets into power.
This would give people a second chance to vote for the lesser of the 2 evil (see last London election where the emperor would've lost if the had been a second round)
A party could win with a very small percentage in theory.
But even the proportional representation has his faults.
Just look at other European countries where after the parties slaughter one another, soon after the elections they become friends and form coalition governments.
I believe there should be elections with all parties separate and then the first 2 should go to the "final" where the party with 50%+ of the votes gets into power.
This would give people a second chance to vote for the lesser of the 2 evil (see last London election where the emperor would've lost if the had been a second round)
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I detest Reform and farage.
But if they get lots of votes why shouldn't they be represented properly
I used to think PR was a good idea. A further look at the effects in other countries has put me off. The major drivers for it are parties that get lower levels of votes as they may get more this way even purely down to 2nd choices.
Actually I did vote for PR. It was actually AV not PR but effects are much the same.
Actually I did vote for PR. It was actually AV not PR but effects are much the same.
Absolutely right
Not the same thing at all...
And that was the trap to ensure that the undemocratic FPTP voting system was retained
I thought the coalition of 2010 was a sensible outcome of an election
A Tory voter may well see things like that or a floater. What I noticed was Lib campaigning and the actual resultant changes. I don't think they had much impact at all on Tory policy.
You may have heard of neo liberalism. Think Ragan and Thatcher. Ordinary Liberalism has the same tendencies so an ideal match.
That’s not how I remember it
Both parties had manifestos, then discarded most policies and drew up the coelition agreement, which IIRC they pretty much enacted
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Yes
I think the lib dens had a big calming effect on the Tories. But they squandered their principles for a few moments of power.
Look at the Tories since then for the difference it made to them
It is easier to navigate
Than this one that has more hype
The interesting feature of this period is the introduction of the OBR. Some say Labour is continuing with Tory austerity due to that. The rules are designed to ensure debt falls rather than rises. It can't do anything about external global price forces but can help recover from them when debt goes up to what ever happens to be seen as too much. The US is running at 120% GDP. Japan is easily the highest. So countries pay debt interest levels proportional to that. UK is at ~85%. France 98%. Germany 60%. They export which can help a lot. The UK's debt has been pretty stable since 2010 when looked at this way, The banking crisis shoved it up to this sort of level. It had been ~40%
It limits what parties can say they will do - at least the 2 mains anyway. If a service needs improving and that needs more money either increase tax or look for real growth. Or increase debt but that will continue growing. Both parties want growth and wont aim to increase debt.
So taxation is rather high and needs to be to maintain the figures. It's also locked in for a period by both parties. The take hasn't done much in the line of cutting debt but it has fallen a bit.
Labour can't do some of the leftish ideas that might be expected. They can look for cheaper things to do to improve things, Tory - we'll carry on the same way as we usually do. We've bought inflation down - pure rubbish. It does that naturally unless new influences crop up, It's still too high in the service sector which is why the BofE hasn't dropped the rate. That too should level off.
It limits what parties can say they will do - at least the 2 mains anyway. If a service needs improving and that needs more money either increase tax or look for real growth. Or increase debt but that will continue growing. Both parties want growth and wont aim to increase debt.
So taxation is rather high and needs to be to maintain the figures. It's also locked in for a period by both parties. The take hasn't done much in the line of cutting debt but it has fallen a bit.
Labour can't do some of the leftish ideas that might be expected. They can look for cheaper things to do to improve things, Tory - we'll carry on the same way as we usually do. We've bought inflation down - pure rubbish. It does that naturally unless new influences crop up, It's still too high in the service sector which is why the BofE hasn't dropped the rate. That too should level off.