Quinetic receiver

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FranG

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I'm looking into using Quinetic receivers for lighting and see a lot of entries on the forum. But I can't find an answer so hoping a user can help.

Does the receiver require a minimum load for the lighting. I've had problems with electronic switches before when using standard mains LED lamps (mains not low voltage) commonly available.
I saw an entry on the Screwfix forum where someone had problems which were cured when he/she used a filament lightbulb instead of LED. However, I'm not sure if it were wiring or the lamp.

Also, if there is a prolonged power-cut will the transmitter/receiver have to be re-paired?
If so, that's a pain.


Thanks.
 
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Thanks Taylortwocities.
Yes, the product that proved problematic was a 'no neutral' receiver. I now understand.

Any thoughts/opinions/feedback on physical and electrical reliability?
I realise it's made you-know-where and down to a budget.

The other reason I was worried is that the similar, but much more expensive, MK Echo system does not mention LED Lamp operation in their catalogue.
Oddly, the model MK K5431R (Honeywell Peha) Voltage Free Switching appears to have L/N supply and separated* good old relay switching. Therefore...

Dilemma.
1. Low cost product from an unknown manufacturer.
2. Blooming expensive German-made product from a well known manufacturer.

I think I'll buy a pair of Quinetic (not to be confused with Qinetiq of course) devices and test them.


* I hope doesn't initiate a long discussion on creepage & clearance :).
 
Oh, I just noticed on TLC website they include a 500W rating for LEDs for the 6Amp receiver. I'll buy and try.
 
FranG said:
... Yes, the product that proved problematic was a 'no neutral' receiver. I now understand.
Click to expand...
I would think that, virtually by definition, any 'no neutral' device (be it a switch, dimmer, timer or whatever) will have a minimum load in order for it to work,, and that minimum may well be less than an LED light. Perhaps 'worse', if the LED is an adequate load, the LED is quite likely to come 'on' (or, at least, flicker etc/) when it is meant to be 'off'.

Kind Regards, John
 
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Yes, the item was a dimmer controlling a group of LED lamps. And yes, they flashed until I replaced one of the LED lamps with a filament lamp. All was OK after that.
I assume the LED lamps have a switcher design PS so, when 'off', it trickled up and discharged hence the flash.
Ah, the benefits of a clunky relay over triacs/thyristors!

The Quinetic device is on order so I'll see how that goes.
 
I have fitted Quinetic switching for customers without any issues.
I also have several at home. Just occasionally one switch doesn't trigger on first push, but isn't a big issue.
 
Thanks TimboTwo, your hands-on experience is appreciated.
 
As a slight aside MK Echo, for their receiver, say "...however we recommend a maximum load of 3 x LED lamps only due to the in-rush current."
Obviously, I'm not sure how the Quinetic will behave regarding inrush - there's only one way to find out and perhaps that's the reason for the 500W limit.
 
FranG said:
As a slight aside MK Echo, for their receiver, say "...however we recommend a maximum load of 3 x LED lamps only due to the in-rush current."
Obviously, I'm not sure how the Quinetic will behave regarding inrush - there's only one way to find out and perhaps that's the reason for the 500W limit.
Click to expand...
As I said before, 500W worth of LEDs sounds pretty ridiculous but, who knows, perhaps they were thinking as you suggest.

However, I can't see LEDs having any greater an 'inrush' current than most small electronic things, and the cheap LEDs with little/nothing by way of a 'smoothing capacitor' will probably have virtually no inrush current.

Kind Regards, John
 
Yes, the inrush comment surprised me too. Perhaps they (MK) are just covering themselves.
Not sure of cheap step-down/switcher circuits used in low-cost bulbs but inrush is limited with Infineon/PI/DiodesInc LED drivers.

Maybe some of the real cheapo ones use the absolute minimum?
And likely a slightly different design with dimmable?

I'm using a Philips bulb for my testing; works perfectly no flicker.
If I get a chance I'll take it into work and stick the Quinetic on an EMC test rig. Maybe not, it works and life is short :)
 
FranG said:
Yes, the inrush comment surprised me too. Perhaps they (MK) are just covering themselves.
Not sure of cheap step-down/switcher circuits used in low-cost bulbs but inrush is limited with Infineon/PI/DiodesInc LED drivers. ... Maybe some of the real cheapo ones use the absolute minimum?...
Click to expand...
The very cheapest ones have little, if anything, more than a series capacitor and a bridge rectifier. The slightly more expensive ones have a 'smoothing' capacitor after the rectifier, which theoretically could cause some 'inrush' current, but since it's in series with the (low value) series capacitor, I would think that current would be very low. When one moves more up-market, they will have some sort of electronic current-controlling circuitry, and then anything is possible. I would certainly suspect that the very cheapest would be the least likely to have a significant 'inrush' current.

Kind Regards, John
 
Blimey. So no current limiting or over-current sensing or PFC etc.? Ah well, everyone wants the cheapest I guess.
I saw a tear-down of several LED lamps (albeit it a few years ago); some had drivers plus bridge & cap and some had a little R+C for noise.

The Quinetic receiver been on for 2 hours now and still works, hurrrah!
Barely tepid.
I noticed a relay tick inside. In some ways I prefer this.
And I was dreading it losing it's memory if the power was removed and restored. It's fine.

Time to order some plastic boxes and try it in anger.
 
Following some un-expected blowing of fuses on the village Christmas lights I did some investigation. The lamps have a series capacitor, 0.47uF bridge rectifier and a smoothing capacitor 10uF

The lamps are nominal 1 Watt and the 200 lamp festoons were, as expected, each pulling about 1 Amp once lit.

The manufacturer's response was

Dear Bernard,

Thank you for choosing our products,

After a conversation with our engineering team, please note that our ******* lamps have a 33mA of inrush current.
For a 200 lamps festoon, you will need a minimum of 7 Amp fuse.

Please note that the inrush current in the LED lamps can go up to 10 times of the standard current value.
 
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