Ring main and isolation query.

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I've recently bought a new Charles Church (Persimmon) home. After moving in i decided to change some upstairs sockets. I isolated first floor sockets with the switch but the sockets in 2 rooms don't switch them off, however the downstairs sockets does in fact switch them off. I spoke to the site manager regarding this and she informed me that the upstairs and downstairs are split further into left and right so that if there is a problem not all sockets on a floor go off. My father is a builder of 40 years and has never heard of this? Is the site manager blowing smoke up my a**e or is this a genuine explanation as the box doesn't indicate that you are only isolating half the floors sockets. Luckily I tested the wire first prior to touching any wires
 
Unconventional, but there are no regs forbidding that arrangement. This also emphasises the importance of proving the circuit (and each and every accessory being worked on) is dead.

Edit, in view of JohnD's comment added (and each and every accessory being worked on)
 
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I isolated first floor sockets with the switch but the sockets in 2 rooms don't switch them off, however the downstairs sockets does in fact switch them off. .... is this a genuine explanation as the box doesn't indicate that you are only isolating half the floors sockets. Luckily I tested the wire first prior to touching any wires
It's not unusual, and could be for the reason you've been told, or might be due to the fact that it was easier/quicker/cheaper to do it like that. Some houses are actually wired 'left and right', rather than 'up and down', if that is more convenient to do.

However, the naughty thing is obviously that the consumer unit has not been labelled in such a way as to indicate what is going on - since, as you imply, if you had not been suitably cautious/vigilant, there could have been an unpleasant, or even tragic, result. I think you have good reason to moan about that.

Kind Regards, John
 
The site manager may well be flanneling. It might be a mistake or a bodge or it might be deliberate.

At the least, you ought to find out what outlets are on what MCB, and update the labels on your consumer unit.

Assuming you do not have a labelmaker, you can make neat durable labels with white vinyl tape and a Stabilo Write 4 All pen.

Mwatson is right, but it is not enough to test the circuit for dead, you have to test every switch and outlet that you work on. You are not the first person to be caught out, and you will not be the last.
 
I've not checked to see if it is, but that ought to be a wiring regs contravention.
Indeed, it certainly ought to - but, like you, I'm not certain without looking.

Given some of the 'silly'/useless labels that the regs do require, it would be surprising (and a reason for moaning about the regs) if the regs do not require adequate labelling of the CU.

Kind Regards, John
 
I think one of the reasons is that room use can change, making the situation even more misleading. For example, in my place there is circuit labelled "beds" and another labelled "din/lounge". A new occupier could decide to use the dining room as a bedroom, thus creating a potential dangerous situation for anybody working in what was a dining room.
 
I think one of the reasons is that room use can change, making the situation even more misleading. ...
You mean a reason for not 'fully labelling' the CU?
For example, in my place there is circuit labelled "beds" and another labelled "din/lounge". A new occupier could decide to use the dining room as a bedroom, thus creating a potential dangerous situation for anybody working in what was a dining room.
That's true, but I don't see what one can really do about that - one can but hope (without much confidence!) that anyone who re-purposes rooms will change the labelling accordingly.

However, there is nothing that can change about 'upstairs' and 'downstairs' - so it was certainly unnecessarily misleading for the OP to have an MCB labelled (just) 'downstairs sockets' which also supplied a couple of upstairs ones!

Kind Regards, John
 
I know with my sister house a little on the large side the sockets were split left to right as that allowed a better loop impedance, I can not actually see any good reason to split wiring between upper and lower floors other than easy to label. If using a two RCD consumer unit you would want to avoid in an emergency running an extension lead up or down stairs, so safety wise you want a supply from both RCD's on each floor. Where the problem arises you also want every room to have the lighting and sockets from a different RCD as well so should anything plugged into a socket develop a fault it will not also plunge one into darkness.

I really do query the whole idea of only 2 RCD's in a consumer unit? It is hard to arrange the wiring so lights and sockets are always from different RCD's in every room, however it does not matter how many RCD's a general power cut will still plunge one into darkness, and even the street lamps will not help, they will go out too.

I think every house should have the risk assessed. My house has the stair case in the centre of the house, there are panes of glass above every door on the landing to allow light from bedroom, bathroom and toilet to reach the landing, but I decided the risk was too high and fitted an emergency lamp above the stairs.

Over the years the house has changed, this includes ripping out the cistern and fitting an instant gas boiler in the garage, this resulted in no immersion heater and the cable was used to power sockets in kitchen, living room, and the bedroom made from room which did have cistern, when the kitchen was extended two radial circuits I had fitted were combined to make a new ring final, I also have a dedicated supply to cooker, so in the kitchen there are 4 MCB's protecting the sockets.

In living room 2 MCB to sockets, maybe 3 and same in master bedroom and bedroom formed from airing cupboard and front bedroom. With exception of the socket on the cooker supply there are dots on the sockets red, yellow and blue and dots on the consumer unit so I know which MCB feeds which socket. Or at least there were, but cleaning has resulted in some now being missing.

I am sure most houses have something which is not powered from either of the two standard ring finals, so it would be crazy not to test each socket before working on it, in one house I even found a socket powered from next doors supply, so even turning off the isolator is not enough.

I do not always use a proving unit, but I do test for dead with a non switched tester which does not require batteries so very unlikely to be an error and also use a neon screwdriver in case there are any errors like a borrowed neutral, I know today with clamp on ammeters you can test for borrowed neutrals before you disconnect but by using a neon screwdriver the risk is low.

Even some of the proving units do not really ensure the tester is OK, the proving unit should go up and down the voltage range to show the tester will show 230 volt or in fact any voltage over 50 volt, however the one I used gave out 500 volt, so although you knew all lamps would light at 500 volt you did NOT know if any light would come on at 50 volt, so rather a useless proving unit.

Although you can get locks to fit MCB's, and in some cases you can lock the flap on the consumer unit so no one can switch a circuit back on, in domestic the electrician often does not even place a sign on the consumer unit or even tape on the MCB. I know tape is not really good enough, but even locks can be removed, a tie wrap is good enough, it needs a tool to remove it, and main point is to ensure anyone who does switch it on, knows full well some one was working on the circuit. Electrocution is a valid method for murder, but we don't want it to happen by accident.

Be it bolt cutters to take off a lock, or master key, a pair of snips to remove a tie wrap, or a simple bit of insulation tape, even a notice do not switch on, some thing should be put on the consumer unit to show anyone trying to locate a fault that it's turned off intentional. I have had it where an electrician got a shock from an isolated supply where another electrician was looking for a fault using an insulation tester. Also where proved dead then a contactor came in causing it to become live. Even trying ones best things can go wrong. But not actually testing which MCB covers which circuit at best is negligence, I if I was caught not testing first I would expect the sack.

Not testing first is gross negligence so no need even to give a warning, it is instant dismissal. Or of course death!
 
Proper circuit identification is required, regulations 514.8 and 514.9 apply.

How the circuits are arranged is entirely up to whoever designed it.
Circuits being split left/right in a building is permitted, as is up/down, front/back and so on.
It's also allowed to have multiple circuits for items within the same room, including where they are connected to different phases.
 
Discretely labelling sockets with the number of the MCB / RCBO that feeds them is useful for the far in the distance repair when one has lost the memory ( and plan ) of which went where in the CU
 
Discretely labelling sockets with the number of the MCB / RCBO that feeds them is useful for the far in the distance repair when one has lost the memory ( and plan ) of which went where in the CU
Very true, and, believe it or not, I actually do it - albeit inside the accessory when it is in a 'public' area (in the cellar, garage, workshop, store rooms etc., labelling is visible on the outside of the accessory). Each one has a number of the form X.Y.Z - where X is the phase, Y is the CU number on that phase and Z is the number (position) of the MCB/RCBO within that CU. The CUs are correspondingly labelled X.Y.

Kind Regards, John
 
Left / right is common these days now that ground floors are typically not suspended timber. The CU should be labelled left/right, not up/down though.

However, should you have received a shock through relying on labelling and not proving dead, you would be just as much in the wrong as the chap who labelled the CU.
 
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