Should I pay to fix their defective work

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danieldodson

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I've been renovating a property for a few years and many times I've had to pay out to fix problems caused by people doing dumb things like not following the specification, fitting window frames the wrong way around or just generally poor workman ship.

Recently I hired a plumber to carry out a boiler service and provide a gas certificate. I also mentioned that the radiator that they hung has a slow leak around the valves and could they fix it whilst there. I could easily do it myself as I do at another property I own but since it was their work I felt that they should sort it out. I've used this plumber most years for about 10 years. He installed the central heating system 5 years ago so knows it well. The radiator was hung about 18 months ago but initially I wasn't sure that the leak was active but last summer I took some wire wool and cleaned the area just prior to boarding out the area with 3mm ply and some lino going down. Fast forward 6 months and I notice that yes the leak is still active. I only get to the property once a month for 5 days as I have to care for an elderly parent so cannot be away for too long.

The plumber is saying that both valves must have got knocked during the boarding process (with 3mm ply!) and therefore that I must pay. As the leak was there before that I know that that isn't the case. I took a photo of the pipes just after I cleaned them off but unfortunately not before I cleaned them so have no evidence to prove. I'm tired of having to pay for other peoples mistakes. The only mistakes I've made here are not telling him about my suspicion when I cleaned the pipes and not taking a photo of it before I cleaned the pipes. I've asked him and he's said that it is my choice. He's considered expensive in the area so I expect the work to be warranteed. Should I pay? I am prepared to lose him but it is important to me to be fair hence the question.
 
danieldodson said:
The only mistakes I've made here are not telling him about my suspicion when I cleaned the pipes and not taking a photo of it before I cleaned the pipes. I've asked him and he's said that it is my choice. He's considered expensive in the area so I expect the work to be warranteed. Should I pay? I am prepared to lose him but it is important to me to be fair hence the question.
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He should fix free, it as a matter of goodwill, for a valued customer, nevermind your needing to prove it. His excuses are absolute nonsense - just find a more reliable plumber.
 
If it was a... 'while you're here can you just do this'... job, then he was probably right.
18 months is a bit long winded to be honest anyway.

As much as customers like to moan about their tradesmen, sometimes tradesmen have a good old moan about their customers, maybe he just doesn’t like you.
 
Harry Bloomfield said:
He should fix free, it as a matter of goodwill, for a valued customer, nevermind your needing to prove it. His excuses are absolute nonsense - just find a more reliable plumber.
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That's nonsense mate. No disrespect, but you're talking rubbish.
Not sure where all you people feel the cut off point is for plumbers good will.
Most people expect the moon on a stick nowadays and that seems to be extending further and further into the realms of unmanageable.
 
roguetrader said:
That's nonsense mate. No disrespect, but you're talking rubbish.
Not sure where all you people feel the cut off point is for plumbers good will.
Most people expect the moon on a stick nowadays and that seems to be extending further and further into the realms of unmanageable.
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The valves on the radiator have both been leaking since it was installed 18 months ago. It hasn't been fine for 18 months and then failed. Slow leaks are difficult to identify.
roguetrader said:
If it was a... 'while you're here can you just do this'... job, then he was probably right.
18 months is a bit long winded to be honest anyway.

As much as customers like to moan about their tradesmen, sometimes tradesmen have a good old moan about their customers, maybe he just doesn’t like you.
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Not sure I understand why it might matter how it was booked but I did explain that the valves they'd installed were leaking when I booked the boiler service. However the plumber sent a sub contractor who works exclusively with him and I had to tell the subcontractor again as he'd missed that instruction. It was the same subbie who had installed the system anyway so it was his defective work to begin with.

In terms of the cost to fix it, he was there doing the boiler service anyway and this is arguably better for him to combine the fix with the additional work as opposed to making a separate trip which would cost him additional travel time.

I think I will just pay the bill and move on as @denso13 has suggested. If the plumber is not willing to believe the information that I've told him then that is a problem and he is no longer worth the premium that I have been paying him.
 
roguetrader said:
That's nonsense mate. No disrespect, but you're talking rubbish.
Not sure where all you people feel the cut off point is for plumbers good will.
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Fixing the leak, is probably a two minute job, and it seems a failure of the plumbers workmanship. Why would he not fix it for free?
 
Are you a plumber, Harry?
I see you setting a lot of rules that tradesmen should follow and giving lots of advice on how things should be done.
Not after an argument, just interested.
 
As a customer, with no plumbing knowledge - if I thought there was a leak from a newly fitted valve I would have contacted the installer at the time.
If I only told them several months later, when they were doing something else, I would say that I thought it had been leaking since xxx date - and hope that they might fix it for free, but realise that they would probably charge
 
roguetrader said:
Are you a plumber, Harry?
I see you setting a lot of rules that tradesmen should follow and giving lots of advice on how things should be done.
Not after an argument, just interested.
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Of course not. If a customer expected me to make a special trip, after all this time, to fix my substandard work, then it would be chargeable. As the plumber was there already, it would be perfectly reasonable, that he should fix his work FOC.
 
I'm a bit hesitant to say this - but I've read the initial post twice, and wonder if it is a case of not what was asked, but how it was asked?
(Sorry - shouldn't butt in, I know).
 
Leaks appear on systems all the time.
They're active systems after all.

It's why plumbers exist!

I check my work whilst on site, as thoroughly as possible, but sometimes they don't appear for several days due to pressure and temperature fluctuations and quite often, a defective fitting!

Anything other than a soldered joint is assembled not made and as long as assembled to MI's then future failure is technically a manufacturer issue.

The times I've been called to a leaking rad valve I fitted, only to see the dent marks in the pipe, through vacuum cleaner damage!

Still, I warranty my work for 12 months IF my terms and conditions are satisfied.
 
helplessowner said:
If I thought there was a leak from a newly fitted valve I would have contacted the installer at the time.
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Easy to say but that statement makes the assumption that leaks are easy to identify. Part of the issue with gaining experience is that you don't know what is acceptable and learning that takes time. After it was installed I thought that it was some jointing compound residue on the pipes and not a leak so didn't want to cause a nuisance by calling them out because of a bit of mess left behind. I had lots of other things to work on in the property which were higher priority so turned my attention elsewhere until I came to do the boarding out at which point I cleaned the pipes.
 
so what is actually leaking a compression joint or soldered or where the valve tail screws into rad
 
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