Sky and RF output

[ericmark]

I have been having problems with Sky and decided to cancel it. At which they offered to change the box to Sky+ at very much reduced cost so I went for it.

They arrived while I was out so my wife did all talking and I was pleased to find all installed including extra coax which I did not know would be required.

But then I found I had lost some freeview channels. Going into services set up pressing 01 then select (hidden menu) and selecting RF outputs I found the output was on channel 68 which in my area is also used by Multiplex A - S4C Digital Networks from Winterhill which includes channel 5 etc.

I changed it to channel 22 well out of the way for all Winterhill and Moel-y-parc transmitters but I would have thought this would have been done by the installation engineer and would explain why we have so many reports about poor channel 5 signals from freeview.

I wonder how many others have had the same problem? And where internal aerials are left connected to portables how much this can swamp neighbours freeview signals as well.

My parents have lost channel 5 but when neighbours to North East are on holiday it returns does the broadcast also come out of RF in on Sky box could this be why my parents have lost channel 5?

 

[Steve]

The output from a sky box should remain on the cable, it should not transmit any radio frequencies.

Otherwise, your parents would see your neighbours sky channels.

 

[ColJack]

this is how the tv detector vans know you've got a TV and haven't bought a license....

 

[ericmark]

The output from a sky box should remain on the cable, it should not transmit any radio frequencies.

Otherwise, your parents would see your neighbours sky channels.

I agree Sky boxes like Freeview and Free to Air boxes should have the RF output switched off by default and the installer or user should have to activate them.

However this is not the case. They are sent out with the RF Output on Channel 68.

Out of interest I did try plugging the RF input to Sky box to the RF input on TV and there was a signal. This means my aerial will transmit this signal. Although may be not strong enough to be received by another TV it is however strong enough to degrade the signal coming from Winter Hill.

Remember Winter Hill is around 60 miles from the North Wales coast so the signal is not too strong to start with. Which also means high gain beams to receive which of course also means gain on transmit.

I will agree that before Freeview started there was no problem and Sky should not be responsible for interference caused by boxes supplied before that date.

However to continue to supply boxes set to channel 68 after Freeview was issued with that frequency is boarding on criminal. They must know it will degrade the Freeview signal and this is really unfair to cripple Freeview's transmissions in this way.

 

[ericmark]

this is how the tv detector vans know you've got a TV and haven't bought a license....

I have never worked out the TV licensing rules. It originally said "To receive broadcast TV signals". However the cable TV is not broadcast. So then it was "to have (not necessary use) and apparatus for receive broadcast TV signals" when I was at school this was called an aerial but the detector vans did not look for aerials but for TV's.

As it stands there is no difference between receiving cable TV and Internet TV yet one needs a licence and the other does not. This is because the TV set still has a modulator and could receive broadcast TV.

A case has it seems been fought where TV could not be received and only DVD's were viewed and it was won which leaves the whole idea of owning a TV in question.

When living in a caravan I was using a TV to work my computer and I wanted to disable what ever necessary to allow me to use it legal but all my efforts to find out what was allowed were in vain.

Seems it is up to the courts to decide and I did not fancy fighting a test case so bought a monitor. A woman who was given a VCR was done for not having a colour licence even though she only had a black and white set.

I did have a friend who was using an old TV for slow scan TV and he got away with it once he showed them the set up and transmitting licence.

As to black and white licence I have not seen any black and white freeview boxes so I would think they will be stopped.

 

[ccam108]

this is how the tv detector vans know you've got a TV and haven't bought a license....

I thought that they could pick up the electromagnetic radiation given off the front of the set, piece it together and see what channel you are watching. Or they listened in to your conversations and if you mentioned the telly you got done.

But seriously, if they had detector vans you'd think they would get it right. My uncle doesn't own a TV but has been threatened with court action several times. I think they just assume you have a TV and if they are wrong, bully you into paying anyway!

Colin C

 

[ericmark]

While living in a caravan I bought a Black and White licence as set at home was still being used.

It asked for home address which I gave.

On returning home they kept sending me letters about renewing the licence even though I had a colour licence for the same address.

 

[nitro23456]

Those tv detection vans are pretty accurate. when I was a student living in halls with 250 rooms they knew I had a TV on the 4th floor 3rd room from the left and that I had hidden it under my bed when we were tipped off about the vans presence outside.

Never under estimate the power of the TV van, they use the same technology used by 'hawkeye'.

I got fined.

 

[ninjacat]

It originally said "To receive broadcast TV signals". However the cable TV is not broadcast.

Yes it is. Just because it is not sent over the air waves does not mean it is not broadcasted. All broadcast means is that it is a signal sent to many people.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/broadcasting

It just gets confusing as it is referred to as being "on air" - a hang up from the old days when it was the only means available to get a signal to large groups of people over a large area.

 

[ericmark]

As I understand it must be free to view to be broadcast so with Sky some channels are free to view and are not encrypted so it is broadcast. But with cable unless you pay virgin for the signal you are not allowed to receive in fact where people have managed to get the signal without paying they have been taken to court so not broadcast.

Even if anyone can receive the signal for example a radio ham transmitting slow scan TV unless it is intended for anyone it is not broadcast so the ham has to make contact with another station he can't for example just say anyone on M6 near junction 5 there is a traffic jam as that it broadcasting he has to make contact with someone first. Only exception is calling CQ.

The TV on the internet is not broadcast if it is a one to one connection as when you connect to BBC web site but TV catchup in spite of the name can only be received live so could be considered as broadcast.

It is the ability to receive not the actual receiving so anyone with internet should if following rules to letter have a TV licence. This would mean many firms would need to pay a fortune because of the number of computers they have.

I am sure this is why it has not been enforced? However it does leave an anomaly as cable requires a licence and internet does not and at some point I would expect it to go to court again.

And this is the whole problem it is for the courts to decide and how ever carefully you read licence conditions it makes no difference it is all up to the judge.

I know where TV signals can no longer be received due to the change over from analogue to digital a case has come to court where some one owned a set but could no longer receive a signal and it was rules they did not need a licence even though they had a TV set.

 

[ericmark]

I had a reply from Freeview:-

Thank you for contacting Freeview.

This issue that you have raised in your email can occur with some people using both sky and freeview. As far as we are aware if you were to call sky's technical department they should be able to talk you through a procedure to change the RF output to a different channel.

If we can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us at www.freeview.co.uk or by telephone on 08708 80 99 80. We are open from 8 a week.am until 10 pm seven days

Seems they are not worried suppose they get money even if people can't watch their TV.

 

[ericmark]

Reply from MP.

Whilst I am aware that you have now resolved this matter, I do appreciate that it may be a problem for many other households within my constituency. Consequently, I have written to Department for Culture, Media and Sport, with regard to this matter. I will keep you informed.

I will be interested to see how it goes.

 

[ericmark]

Reply from MP.

Whilst I am aware that you have now resolved this matter, I do appreciate that it may be a problem for many other households within my constituency. Consequently, I have written to Department for Culture, Media and Sport, with regard to this matter. I will keep you informed.

I will be interested to see how it goes.

Further it now seems after change over Winter Hill will not be using channel 68 so all rather academic now!