Standard Economy 9-Please tell me how this works in my current flat ?

[ajayuk90]

I moved to UK recently and my rented flat has Horstmann Radio Telemeter Series 2A electricity meter.
However, I have been asking both my electricity provider SSE and my Landlord on a query for which they are not having answers.

1. Does the meter consider all appliances usage during Off peak times or Is it only the storage heating appliances that are billed in off peak ?
(Attached image of the meter, It looks quite old model)

2. Also, the time shown in the meter is 1 hour ahead of my current time and the day is correct, but Year is 1995(it's similair to 2023, So shouldn't really matter). Does the time have any impact ?

Below are the off peak hours as confirmed by SSE for my tariff-

Current Tariff- Standard Economy 9

Winter-
3 am to 6 am
12 pm to 3 pm
7:30 pm 10:30 pm
Summer-
4 am to 7 am
1 pm to 4 pm
8:30 pm to 11:30 pm
_____________
Observation: I tried measuring the consumption during my actual clock time(not meter displayed time) 1 PM to 3 PM last month, The electricty was getting consumed in both Readings 1 & Readings 2.

Reading 1 at 1 PM(actual clock time)- 57552
Reading 2 at 1 PM(actual clock time)- 81106
Reading 1 at 3 PM(actual clock time)- 57556
Reading 2 at 3 PM(actual clock time)- 81108

Note: The meter time was displayed an hour ahead
___________________

3. Does the meter show when off peak tariff is live ? I see status as 'D' in both rates 1 & 2.

Attaching pictures of the circuits in the flat and the meter board.

Thank you in advance and really appreciate the patience in answering my query.

 

[stem]

Usually there are two consumer units. One is energised only when the cheaper electricity is available (Off Peak) and is for the storage heaters. The other is energised permanently (24 Hours) for normal use but will flick between the two tariffs according to the time.

That would be commensurate with your photo showing appliance isolators being marked 'Off Peak' and '24 Hours' However, you have only posted a photograph of one consumer unit. I assume that there is another one somewhere?

I don't think that the time being an hour wrong should matter as it's a Radio Telemeter, the tariff switching is done via radio signal. Maybe someone else could confirm for certain.

Why both readings were increasing during the off peak time is a mystery. However, you should be able to carry out a fairly simple check to test it.

1. When you get up in the morning turn off the storage heaters at their consumer unit so that they won't start to charge before you do the tests. About half an hour into an off peak tariff, turn everything off at both consumer units. [Between 12pm & 3pm would be good before it gets dark ] and note the readings of both tariffs. Then switch on only the storage heaters for 15 minutes. Again note the readings. Only the off peak reading should have increased.

2. Now switch off all the storage heaters at their consumer unit and switch on something that uses a fair rate of energy, such as an electric hob, or oven for 15 minutes and then take the readings. Again only the off peak tariff should have increased.

If you find that the standard rate tariff has increased, during either of the above, then you will likely have to get someone in to inspect the installation to find out why.

Sorry I don't know the intricacies of your meter, but often usually there is a display for tariff 1, tariff 2 and a total (1+2)

 

[ajayuk90]

Thank you Stern, So, to give further details, this is a 1 bedroom flat, and I searched everywhere and could only find 1 consumer unit. I am now attaching a screenshot from the electrical installation condition report. Please tell me if this makes any sense ?

 

[stem]

The two systems are shown. 24 Hrs in the green box and off peak in the purple box.

So it might be a split consumer unit with two separate supplies to it from the meter. I can't read the labels on the photo of the consumer unit you provided, but the off peak is probably the bank of MCB's to the far left. Although there appear to be 5 MCB's but only 4 are listed on the report. [11 to 14]

 

[Diver Fred]

If it is a radio switch the actual timings can be very different - all you can guarantee is that you will get the number of hours. But equally so it could easily be a "smart" meter. The timings should be in GMT rather than BST.

My parents house has a radio switch for NSH - presently the heating is running principally during the day (09:00 to 16:00) thanks to the charging load from EV's - not that we are complaining as the NSH's are hot in the evenings.

 

[stem]

The OP has economy 9 and the current times given by SSE add up exactly to the 9 hours.

3 am to 6 am
12 pm to 3 pm
7:30 pm 10:30 pm

In the past there could be a range of times given by the supplier which in total would add up to more than the promised 9 hours but only 9 hours would be available at some point during the specified times.

 

[ericmark]

The off peak electric supply started in this country around the 80's, original was Economy 7, which had two meters, the white one was off peak, and two independent consumer units, and had a teleswitch linked to radio 4 time signal.

As time went on people wanted to take advantage of off peak for washing machines etc, so the method of switching changed, and often a trigger wire was used to activate the storage radiators, and they all came from same supply.

However as @stem has shown your EICR seems to show you are still on the old split system although using a split consumer unit rather than two independent consumer units.

However it seems only Scotland still has the off peak still on offer, rest of UK if already set up it can continue to be used, but the radio 4 link I think is no longer, so the clocks will no longer auto correct themselves, so one has to be very careful to ensure your paying the correct tariff.

The role out of "Smart" meters was intended to replace the off peak, however the so called "Smart" meters are not as "Smart" as it was claimed, one can't clap ones hands as on the TV advert and turn lights on and off. And many as one changed supplier stopped working. It also allowed the supplier to remotely turn off your supply, and there have been errors, so people understandable don't want them fitted, but energy companies are still pushing to get them fitted.

The meter is nearly end of life anyway, 10 years is normally considered as life before re-calibration, and likely they will want to replace with a smart meter, but I don't have a off peak supply, and never have had one, and I have only used the old white meter, so not sure how yours works, but would not be surprised to find you no longer have an off peak supply, and both peak and off peak are same price, but only you have the billing information.

 

[stem]

I eventually allowed EDF to install a smart meter 6 weeks ago. The guy couldn't get it working and left with the comment, "they're not as smart as they should be" ........left the defunct energy meter on the table and said we'll be back to fix it. Heard nothing since.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The off peak electric supply started in this country around the 80's,

Nope, much earlier than that, I remember it being around in the early 60's.

 

[ajayuk90]

Thank you all for the inputs, I will run the appliances during off peak and check if the Peak readings are getting increased and keep you all posted. I have some guests at home, so will have to carry out the experiment sometime in Feburary.
I will turn off the 'Off peak mains' and also the individual storage heater switches and use the other electrical appliances regularly for 12 hours.
If the off peak readings remain constant at the end of this, then it means only the storage heaters are being billed in off peak.

 

[ajayuk90]

The off peak electric supply started in this country around the 80's, original was Economy 7, which had two meters, the white one was off peak, and two independent consumer units, and had a teleswitch linked to radio 4 time signal.

As time went on people wanted to take advantage of off peak for washing machines etc, so the method of switching changed, and often a trigger wire was used to activate the storage radiators, and they all came from same supply.

However as @stem has shown your EICR seems to show you are still on the old split system although using a split consumer unit rather than two independent consumer units.

However it seems only Scotland still has the off peak still on offer, rest of UK if already set up it can continue to be used, but the radio 4 link I think is no longer, so the clocks will no longer auto correct themselves, so one has to be very careful to ensure your paying the correct tariff.

The role out of "Smart" meters was intended to replace the off peak, however the so called "Smart" meters are not as "Smart" as it was claimed, one can't clap ones hands as on the TV advert and turn lights on and off. And many as one changed supplier stopped working. It also allowed the supplier to remotely turn off your supply, and there have been errors, so people understandable don't want them fitted, but energy companies are still pushing to get them fitted.

The meter is nearly end of life anyway, 10 years is normally considered as life before re-calibration, and likely they will want to replace with a smart meter, but I don't have a off peak supply, and never have had one, and I have only used the old white meter, so not sure how yours works, but would not be surprised to find you no longer have an off peak supply, and both peak and off peak are same price, but only you have the billing information.

Thanks for the details, This is a snipet of my last month bill showing the tariff. This is being increased to 51.83 GBP/KWH effective this month.

 

[crystal ball]

Nope, much earlier than that, I remember it being around in the early 60's.

Definitely, my in laws have had it since early 70s, and a mate in the 60s, not E7 though

 

[crystal ball]

Just done a search E7 introduced 1978

Economy 7 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Definitely, my in laws have had it since early 70s, and a mate in the 60s, not E7 though

I thought we were just talking about off-peaks arrival..

 

[crystal ball]

I thought we were just talking about off-peaks arrival..

We are I was agreeing with you, but then clarified that it wasn't E7