Steel Quote differences question

[IamNewtoThis]

Hi all,

Just a quick questiong for the experts out there.
We are planning on an extension and remodel of the back and side of our house (Please see plans attached).

We have received a few SE quotes where the beams to be used are different in number.

1. The first SE quote has been for 4 internal beams and 1 beam over the sliding doors.
2. The second SE quote has been for 1 goal post and 7 internal beams.

The first quote SE has sent a sketch of his proposals but I cannot seem to get one from the SE of the second quote.

Would any one have an idea of why we have been quoted over 7 internal beams for the extension?
Could they be double beams and sould that be the best way to go?
Also would there be a need for any columns to support any of these beems or are the masonary calculations just fine?

All advice is appreciated

Before:-
.

After:-

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I've never had an SE quote where the SE specified how many beams would be required, let alone a sketch.

 

[^woody^]

I can't make head or tail of those drawings. Where are the beams supposed to be?

Normally, whoever draws the plans works out where beams are needed and then if he is not able, he gets an engineer to design those beams. You don't give a drawing to an engineer and ask for random beams!

In engineering terms, a beam is the thing that spans across an opening and that beam may be made up of one or several steel beams, boxes or channels, or timber. It's still one "beam" and one calculation and one price for the "beam"

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You'll need a beam in the red locations and maybe the blue, depending on the floor joists above.

 

[IamNewtoThis]

Thanks very much for your responses. Really appreciated.
I should have added the first floor current plan (attached) as it is not changing so might affect the direction of the steels.

Existing first floor

Final first floor

We were hoping for the internal steels to be positioned horizontally.

Will the longer steels (just over 7m and just under 8m) require steel columns or is 910mm stated sufficient to house the piers that hold them?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I'm confused now, is that the existing first floor plan? It's helpful is you post all four plans together, existing ground & first, proposed ground & first.

You've got one crappy builder if he doesn't install the steels horizontally.

As for whether the masonry is suitable, that's for your SE to determine.

 

[noseall]

I'm confused now

I was going to dip my toe, but I think I'll sit this one out.

 

[IamNewtoThis]

Thanks for the responses.

By horizontal, I meant the direction of the steel as drawn on the plan above (i.e. the first steel from the left of the page and the blue coloured steel going from left to right). The support is likely needed in that direction to support first floor (Hence first floor plans attached).

My question about needing steel columns was a result of the first quote needing a goal post structure and the other one not.
I was hoping I would get an indication of why there is a such a difference in the steels quoted.

 

[^woody^]

The competence and knowledge of the engineer is the difference between a moment frame or even a box frame or not.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

By horizontal, I meant the direction of the steel as drawn on the plan above (i.e. the first steel from the left of the page and the blue coloured steel going from left to right). The support is likely needed in that direction to support first floor (Hence first floor plans attached).

What?

I wouldn't get too het up on the proposed designs from the SE's yet, they've literally spent about 1 minute looking at your drawings in order to do a quote. But as mentioned normally the designer (if they're any good) should have pretty much sussed out where a beam is or isn't needed, they should also have determined the joist spans above.

 

[wessex101]

What?

I wouldn't get too het up on the proposed designs from the SE's yet, they've literally spent about 1 minute looking at your drawings in order to do a quote. But as mentioned normally the designer (if they're any good) should have pretty much sussed out where a beam is or isn't needed, they should also have determined the joist spans above.

Freddie has hit the nail on the head. When you provide a fee quote if the client has not provided a detailed brief or detailed plans you have to make an assumption on what the work will involve and confirm what scope of works your quote is based on. It is quite common for the scope of works to change as the design develops so as with any quote the fee may need to be increased or reduced depending on the amount of work involved.
Looking at those sketches I can see why the engineers are confused, I'm erring towards the goal post and 7 internal beams. I would wait until the detailed construction design is more developed and then get the quotes from the structural engineers so they have a clearer picture what is required.
Also your architectural designer should know this and be a bit more proactive in liaising with the engineers to get the quotes.