Tax rises and the Autumn statement

Notch7 said:
Labour are trying to explore short term options…there aren’t any really.

but they also have longer term plans: “Labour has said it would train 7,500 more doctors and 10,000 more nurses a year”


the structural problems in this country would take a decade to solve….and impossible with the constant propaganda and gaslighting from the media.


Until we control the media and get rid of our broken political system, we will just continue on the current cycle
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People dont want to be doctors anymore after the disgraceful way the nhs workers were treated after the pandemic. Announcements dont change that. The nhs is being propped up by foreign health care workers, who account for a big chunk of the 3/4 million migrants people are winging on about.

Blup
 
Notch7 said:
Calling Blair “Bliar“ makes you sound like a Corbyn cultist
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Blair was a cult, the problems of terrorism, internal and imported go directly back to his messianic obsession with a new world order post I rack.

Blup
 
Brigadier said:
It's the only guaranteed way you can achieve anything, after all (y)
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The paradox of politics: you have to choose policies that people will vote for in order to win power…which may be bad policies.

or you can choose the policies you want….and lose.
 
Notch7 said:
Calling Blair “Bliar“ makes you sound like a Corbyn cultist
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No, it makes you forget that nationalising the utilities, taxing nom doms and wealthy/dodgy off shore tax havens, raising income tax, were all widely accepted labour and in some cases tory policy back in the day. Starmers going for a landslide because he's terrified of the daily fail.

Blup
 
Notch7 said:
The paradox of politics: you have to choose policies that people will vote for in order to win power…which may be bad policies.

or you can choose the policies you want….and lose.
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Its not that simple, John Smith would have got elected with a smaller majority on more left wing policies, people are fed up with the tories now as they were then.

Blup
 
blup said:
Blair was a cult, the problems of terrorism, internal and imported go directly back to his messianic obsession with a new world order post I rack.

Blup
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Extremely biased interpretation built on a number of logical fallacies.

let’s look at Iraq war: it was an American war, revenge for 9/11.
UK is a USA puppet, like it or not we were going to be involved with Iraq and Afghanistan whoever was leader.

”messianic obsession with a new world order” - really?


Im no fan of Blair, but his period was better than the Conservative period since by a long way….he lowered pensioner and child poverty, public services were well funded.

And like most Blair haters you conveniently choose to pick Iraq and ignore Kosovo and Sierra Leone

www.newstatesman.com

How Tony Blair is still revered as the saviour of the Kosovan Albanians

Many Kosovan children, now aged 18, were named “Tonibler” by grateful parents in honour of our former PM.
www.newstatesman.com www.newstatesman.com
 
blup said:
No, it makes you forget that nationalising the utilities, taxing nom doms and wealthy/dodgy off shore tax havens, raising income tax, were all widely accepted labour and in some cases tory policy back in the day. Starmers going for a landslide because he's terrified of the daily fail.

Blup
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”Starmers terrified of the Daily Fail“

I expect you would simultaneously argue that Corbyn got crucified by the media and that’s key to why he failed.


Starmer isn’t “terrified”, he simply understands that the r/w media hold huge influence over the public and to win power Labour have to avoid Tory traps and attack lines.

blup said:
nationalising the utilities
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The r/w media would instantly attack Labour as having massive unfunded spending plans
and it would instantly accuse Starmer of being a Corbyn socialist

Theres zero chance of winning power on a mass renationalisation whilst we are in the grip of right wing populism.
 
Notch7 said:
Extremely biased interpretation built on a number of logical fallacies.
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He was messianic

Notch7 said:
let’s look at Iraq war: it was an American war, revenge for 9/11.
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Bushes revenge for his fathers humiliation at the hands of sadam. Bliar on record at the inquiry that h3 thought it was the right thing to do, to remove him.
Notch7 said:
Im no fan of Blair, but his period was better than the Conservative period since by a long way….he lowered pensioner and child poverty, public services were well funded.
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Agreed, cameron decimated public health in particular.
Notch7 said:
And like most Blair haters you conveniently choose to pick Iraq and ignore Kosovo and Sierra Leone
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I dont hate bluar, despising him politically for ir@ck is another thing. I am truly grateful for what he achived in NI and that will be his legacy when he becomes the footnote in political history that he deserves to be.

Blup
 
Notch7 said:
I expect you would simultaneously argue that Corbyn got crucified by the media and that’s key to why he failed.
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He did well, 38% of the vote in 2017 iirc, it was him crucifying the media that frightened them.

Blup
 
Notch7 said:
Starmer isn’t “terrified”, he simply understands that the r/w media hold huge influence over the public and to win power Labour have to avoid Tory traps and attack lines.
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Read, tell lies till in power then revert to type like those that have gone before.
 
blup said:
Its not that simple, John Smith would have got elected with a smaller majority on more left wing policies
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Counterfactual

Blair won with a massive majority and then won twice more with large majorities - he Was clearly very popular with the public, we don’t know whether John Smith (who was a great politician) would’ve been the same
 
blup said:
He did well, 38% of the vote in 2017 iirc, it was him crucifying the media that frightened them.

Blup
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No, he didn’t do well, he only won 30 extra seats

Corbyn focused entirely on the liberal left so he got loads of votes….mostly in Labour heartlands

Corbyns strategy was maximising one sector of the electorate not winning votes in key marginals.


Starmer can’t win on a left wing platform.

you have to decide if you want Labour to have progressive left wing policies and lose
or have policies which those swing voters in key marginals will vote Labour into power.


The big question is: do you want another 5 years of Conservatives in power with their plans for: deregulation, freeports, charter cities.
 
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